Apologies are long overdue.

Mzony · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: Apologies are long overdue.

Hello to all my trumpet friends and colleagues.

I have gotten a lot of E-mails lately and I realize more and more that this job as moderator is challenging.
There is a fine line to cross between censorship and protecting people's reputations.
I made a major mistake many months ago. I allowed a thread to get so out of hand that there were physical threats being issued towards a major trumpet player on the scene. I also allowed the thread to contain slanderous words of a deceased trumpet legend and I allowed another thread to upset another great trumpet player. Manny, Wilmer Wise, and Jim Wilt have all removed themselves from this site, because I did not take action quickly and I let really negative vibrations spread and take over.
To Manny, Wilmer, Jim and I'm sure many others I apologize from the bottom of my soul. I was really hoping that early on that those posts, posters, and threads would correct themselves without my involvement.
That was a severe mistake on my part and I feel very badly that those individuals have retreated (some to other trumpet communities).
I have spent time editing and deleting posts and each time I did, I made an announcement of it and usually PMd the authors.
And here too did I accept criticism for censorship issues. When it comes down to this, there are many people who speak as "authorities" on a subject that maybe they understand very little. I also have tried very hard to protect players of reputation from having to read things about them that are not true, things that are hurtful, and things that are hateful.
While there is a fine line to cross, I do this very publicly. It is hard enough to read bad things about themselves (invariably stuff that may or may not be true), but colleagues, students, and fans around the world read this stuff as well. The internet is a from of INSTANT world wide publishing. I am not a part of the Super Moderators and I have ZERO involvement behind the scenes. That being said, sometimes things are edited and removed without my involvement.
I try to make my actions here as public as possible. I am a part of this trumpet community, and I want to be a positive contributor and a worthy collaborator with all of the individuals on this site.
I am always amused by those who have painted me as an authoritarian. I'm sure many people who know me laugh when I am accuesed of censorship...After all, I tried to help organize the Million Moron March to Washington D.C. in support of Howard Stern and his battle with the FCC. I am certainly not a conservative person. I am however trying to make this a peaceful and friendly place for trumpet players to share information and spend time. I want to keep this site as factual as possible, to maintain a positive support group amongst trumpet players, and to keep the dialect truthful and positive.
I know I'm not the best writer, and I know I have made many errors on this site. For the musicians on this site who I failed to protect, I offer you my deepest apologies. To the musicians on this site who feel that I am too heavy handed and to those that have a sincere problem with me: I'm sorry. But please write me privatley and help me help you. I will continue to work as hard as I can to make sure that this site is as great of a place it can be.
I love music, I love the trumpet, and I love musicians. I wouldn't be here if this were not the case. So please accept my apologies, but remember this site has REAL people on the other end of your screen. These people have real feelings and deserve to be treated respectfully. And while I'm at it, Professional Musicians are real, feeling people too. These people humble themselves every day for people like us. They offer us the best they have daily, and are constantly in the spot light feeling an intense desire to deliver the world's greatest music to us. Please respect their positions, as well as their feelings. And please continue to respect every member of this site as if they were your own family.
Solidarity is all a musician has. If we don't protect ourselves, no one else will offer us their protection either. The arts are in a the struggle of all struggles. As we prepare to justify the arts in our world the last thing the world should see is a bunch of artists fighting stupidly amongst themselves. We need to support each other before the world will embrace our greater cause.

Thank You All,
Mike Zonshine
_________________
Zony

eb1ch · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject:

I think you're doing a fine job. A moderator can only do so much. Until someone writes a software program that makes people be civil to each other, on the internet and elsewhere; what can go wrong, will go wrong.

We all make mistakes. I'm up to about 14 or 15 today alone. Beat that.

ustacouldplay · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject:

mconley1986 · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject:

I think you're doing a fine job. Certain posters have made it difficult for you and I feel that we should make it more clear to them that their sort of slander and ignorance isn't welcome here rather than trying to argue our points. Keep up the good work.
_________________
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams.

Fleebat · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject:

If you're familiar with my user name, then you might know that I'm one of those who sometimes get into fairly heated discussions. And I think you're doing a wonderful job. A while back, I participated in a thread that was "cooled down." I don't resent it at all. I've never seen you take any action because your opinion disagrees with that of a poster, only because things got less than civil.

I for one am thrilled to have a postive-vibed place to turn for information and discourse about trumpet playing. And I'm THRILLED that it's one of the few places I can turn in all of life where there's some kind of constraint on how much one person can diss another. The outside world is SO pecky and competitive and full of crap... this "place" is truly a gift. The rules are pretty simple and very humane; don't use "adult" words, and don't rag on other people.

If you made what you feel was a mistake in the past, I hope you'll let it go. Most of us really appreciate you.

Rusty Russell

Ron Burgundy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Posts: 688

IF you are familiar with my user name you realize I am really full of it.
Stay Classy
Ron

MalinTrumpet · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:10 am Post subject:

Mikey, you're doing a fine job. Thanks. I know sometimes it's pretty unrewarding because of the personalities but I'm grateful for your efforts.

Larry Malin

Fleebat · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:28 am Post subject:

"We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams"

And, sometimes, the deliverers of your pizza.

Rusty Russell

gms979 · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:39 pm Post subject:

Hey Mike,
I think you're doing a fine job, and that cyberspace is a better place with TH in it. While I'm certainly not an advocate of many forms of censorship, I believe that TH is a more than appropriate place to exercise it judiciously and with restraint - as you and the others do! Allusions to the "Nazification of TH" and whatnot simply are blown out of proportion. As the readers of this site vary so much in age, it is to everybody's advantage for the site to be PG / PG-13ish....and when disagreement gets out of hand (as was with physical threats and the like....wow, that must have happened before I joined, I don't remember that at all) then the blame, first and foremost, falls with those who don't know how to disagree while being agreeable. I love the debates on this site; by and large, the bulk of it is civil. Like you said, once an inappropriate post is made, it is instantaneously up there for all to see. Even if it gets taken down, dozens of people have already likely seen it, and the damage is done....making a Mod's timeliness in removing it fairly irrelevant. Once the real mud-slinging began in regards to the high profile folks who left, there wasn't really much you could do, as the material was out there for all to see.

Keep up the good work - you all do a great service!

Later on,
Greg

_PhilPicc · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject:

Mike, You certainly do not have to apologize to me.

Thanks for all you help on TH.

Regards,
Phil
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

trumpetmike · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:59 pm Post subject:

In agreement with the others here - no apology necessary, in my eyes.

As a Moderator you are damned if you moderate and damned if you don't. There will always be people who want more moderation and there will always be those who say you are going too far (as can be seen in some of the discussions further down the board), I think you do a very good job of moderating when things are going too far, yet allowing the discussions to continue in a mature (usually) manner.

_Don Herman · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:24 pm Post subject:

Nice post, Mike. No apologies needed! In management, I've decided that I can't always (ever?) please everyone; sometimes, I must settle for making sure everybody is equally annoyed... Balance in all things!

- Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

Leggi · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject:

You don't need to apoligize to anyone!! It's definately not your fault if people get a bit annoyed at each other, People will be People! I think your doing a great job, in the not-so-long time I've been here, i've heard no complaints or anything. TH is awesome - i love it -- I've had friendly people helping me with my trumpeting woes and giving me tips and help wen i need it. Giving me great links to sites and suggesting some great pieces.

Thanks to EVERYONE out there who has helped me fix my double buzz. It's well on the way. Thanks TH

MannyLaureano · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject:

Dear Mike,

Your apology, while wholly unnecessaary, is graciously accepted in the spirit it was given, and I thank you.

ML
_________________
Liviu Librescu-1930-2007- Holocaust survivor and hero during VA Tech massacre

Athos · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:27 am Post subject:

Welcome back, Manny!

Mike Walk

trumplyr · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject:

I agree with the posts above. It's a sad thing when someone feels they need to apologize for the actions ( words ) of others. They are the ones responsible, not the moderators and not you Mike. If you need to take action in a forum like this one, well, shame on the perps. This is not R/P.

Keep up the good work and thanks for your efforts.
_________________
Marty

"Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best."
Frank Zappa

trombapaul2 · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject: