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Cassius Regular Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 39 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: Help with Schilke mouthpieces.... |
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Hello. I recently purchased a Schilke 13a4a and a 12b4 from Giardinelli.com.
I'm in a bit of a dilemma, so any help here would be appreciated.
First, I normally play on a small letter Bach 3C.
Okay, here's what I noticed. For some reason, to me, the 12b4 rim feels BIGGER than the 13a4a. Why is this? I thought it might of had something to do with the rim contour, but they both have the number 4 rim. Upon outer inspection of the mouthpieces, the tops don't look the same. I'm referring to the part of the mouthpiece that sticks out right above the lable. On the 13a4a, the top is much more angular, as opposed to the 12b4, which is more curvy, exactly like the top of my old 14a4a. Is this a design change in the Schilke line, similar to the small and big letters on Bach mouthpieces?
Overall, I like the B cup, but I want something that has a rim similar to my small letter Bach 3C. Should I try for the 13B?
Thanks in advance. _________________ --------------------------------
Bb - Bach Strad 72*
Bb - Yamaha 8335 Xeno
C - Yamaha 8445 Xeno
Flugel - Conn V1 1FR-SP
Mouthpieces - Bach 3C, Curry 60M |
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mcamilleri Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 2076 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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See my website for alpha angles and some commentary on Schilke mouthpieces. http://users.actrix.co.nz/mcamilleri/Mouthpieces/MpAlpha.htm
The labelling system is, in theory, very orderly, but in practice there are many oddities, and the 13a4a is perhaps the worst of these. It is an extremely tight mouthpiece, which I think even has a different and tighter backbore than the other a4a cups, and the rim and alpha angle combo make it feel smaller. If you look at the Kanstul comparator, the cup diameter of the 13a4a is smaller than the 12a4a, and the alpha angle of the 12a4a is a lot lower than the 13a4a, which makes it feel bigger. Go figure. If you are trying the a4 series try ALL of them, and don't assume that there is a logical progression of size, because there isn't. All the Schilke B cups are also artists models, so will also similarly defy logic.
The 12b4 has a totally different rim to the 12a4a, as there are very few matched pairs in the Schilke range. All the a4 rims are different as they are almost all artists models, and the rim on the 12a4 is VERY flat and wide.
The 14B is probably as close as you will get to the rim feel of the 3C in a slightly smaller cup volume in the Schilke range. You really have to try mouthpieces to know what they are like, as there are so many odd-ball and artists models floating around in the Bach and Schilke ranges.
The Curry 3 range would be very good to try - they have 3 medium depth cups, based on Bach rims. The most recent Curry 3 series is similar to the modern Bach 3C.
Michael _________________ Alpha Angles
Besson Loyalist
Last edited by mcamilleri on Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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plankowner110 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I played a Bach 3C for decades, and last year switched to a Schilke 14B. The transition was very easy and the Schilke yields a brighter sound, but not nearly as penetrating as any of the A4a series pieces. _________________ C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763 |
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DCB1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Look into the Warburton line... say 4M or MC. You can change to any cup backbore you need for different playing situations.
http://www.warburton-usa.com/catalog-trumpet.htm _________________ DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn |
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Rondawg Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 488
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I'm looking for a leadpiece for this fall where my face won't fall off. I really don't want to screw up my chops up with my 3C but still have some extra gas in the upper register. So I'm think of maybe a 14A4 or 14B? Does the 14B still make a pertty good leadpiece or not?
I check the comparator and the 14B seems just a smidge shallower than the my 3C.
So any thoughts? _________________ You can have oodles of technique, but if you've got no tone, it's not going to be attractive to the person hearing it. Tone comes from the inner ear -- you can't teach it. It comes from deep inside your brain -- and also your heart.
-Phil Smith |
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Concertjazz Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2005 Posts: 73 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Respondind to the original post, remember that the 12B4 has a Schilke C backbore, two sizes larger than the A backbore of the 13A4A and has a #26 throat instead of the #27 throat for the 13A4A. I find the A backbores pinch the sound in the high register. The C backbores play far more open. And the X backbore really opens up the MP making it feel like a larger MP than the C, but with the same top end. _________________ Schilke S33 HD
Bob Reeves 42S 962
Last edited by Concertjazz on Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Concertjazz Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2005 Posts: 73 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Rondawg wrote: | Ok I'm looking for a leadpiece for this fall where my face won't fall off. I really don't want to screw up my chops up with my 3C but still have some extra gas in the upper register. So I'm think of maybe a 14A4 or 14B? Does the 14B still make a pertty good leadpiece or not?
I check the comparator and the 14B seems just a smidge shallower than the my 3C.
So any thoughts? |
I am using a Bach 3C, Schilke 14A4 and 14A4X,
The 14A4 will give you the most resistance (for me, this translates to more endurance) due to the shallower cup depth and wider rim. (Note that the throat for A cup Schilkes is the same as Bach, #27) If you want a little more volume with the same cup/rim/throat combo, the X backbore is ideal. Also going back to the Bach 3C for whatever occasion has not been a problem.
Also note that if you go to the Schilke B cup, you are also moving to a #26 backbore. _________________ Schilke S33 HD
Bob Reeves 42S 962 |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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If you want a rim more like your Bach, why not Just try a shallower Bach? |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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I played Bach 3C for years before switching to the Schilke 14B for big band and shows. After many months I noticed the softer Schilke bite was taking its toll on my endurance. I'm now on a Yamaha 14B. This compares to a Bach 3C but somewhat shallower and brighter but with a comfortable rim and just enough bite. |
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pfrank Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2002 Posts: 3523 Location: Boston MA
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:07 am Post subject: |
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I agree--try Yamaha. I've had a 13C4 for awhile, and it's a nice orchestral mp. Just got a Yamaha 13A4a and, boy the rim is GREAT! (as usual I opened it to a 26 drill throat, one thing I LIKE about stock Schilke mps) The bb seems tight...although I haven't yet tried it in the rock band I bought it for... it's competing with a Curry 60M...
btw, have you tried a new Curry 3Z or 3M? The Z does what a A4a is supposed to do, and it sounds and feels much better... (I'd go for a Curry/MtVernon Bach copy IF he had it in a size 6...)(I know Curry would custom make one, but I'm in favor of keeping costs down) |
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Concertjazz Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2005 Posts: 73 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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razeontherock wrote: | If you want a rim more like your Bach, why not Just try a shallower Bach? |
You cannot really try just a shallower Bach cup. When you do, you also get a totally different backbore for each cup depth change. If you wanted to go from, say a 3C (#10 backbore) to a 3E (#117 backbore) you do not get just a shallower cup but an entire different MP. _________________ Schilke S33 HD
Bob Reeves 42S 962 |
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fox Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 405 Location: fla
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Bach rims also are different within the same cup size.
I recently went to a Warburton dealer and spent an hour and a half trying different combinations of cups and backbores. I ended up with a 4MC with a 6BB.
This really makes the most sense to me.
It seems there are a lot of stores that won't even let you try out anything before you buy. Mail order can be hit or miss and a general pain even if you are able to return them. The honeymoon period may extend beyond the trial, but end shortly thereafter.
Find a store that will let you try stuff and try not to stray far from what has worked reasonably well for you in the past.
Doug |
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DCB1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Warburton strikes again! _________________ DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn |
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