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gms979 Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2005 Posts: 418 Location: College Park, MD
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:11 pm Post subject: Ravel Concerto in G |
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Greetings,
Articulation question for people....
If opting to double tongue the Ravel Concerto in G, what do you all prefer - double tonguing ALL eighth notes (even an isolated pair), or only double tonguing in the middle third or so of the excerpt with the long run of eighth notes? I found recently that if I only double tongue the long stream of eighth notes, the excerpt becomes much more managable (assuming I'm taking it at a tempo too fast for single tonguing).
What do you all do?
Thanks!
Greg
Last edited by gms979 on Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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steve_fenick Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 376
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I single tongue it. However, if I had to double tongue it, I would likely just double tongue the longer runs, and single tongue where possible. |
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thesplitmeister Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Posts: 819 Location: Manchester- England
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:15 am Post subject: |
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as a personal prefferrence I single the groups of quavers when they come in threes or less and double the longer passages. This works a treat for me but I had to spend a while making sure that the double balanced up to the single in sound.
Experiment and use what works for you.
Jim |
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Peter Bond Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 1455 Location: Metropolitan Opera
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Ravel Concerto in G |
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gms979 wrote: | Greetings,
Articulation question for people....
If opting to double tongue the Ravel Concerto in G, what do you all prefer - double tonguing ALL eighth notes (even an isolated pair), or only double tonguing in the middle third or so of the excerpt with the long run of eighth notes? I found recently that if I only double tongue the long stream of eighth notes, the excerpt becomes much more managable (assuming I'm taking it at a tempo too fast for single tonguing).
What do you all do?
Thanks!
Greg |
Over the years, I did all kinds of things, but have settled on working it up starting w/slow double tongue, gradually increasing tempo to performance speed and a little beyond. If you double tongue all of it, all of the time, no conductor's or soloist's tempo can bother you (technically, anyway).
On a related topic, I also frequently begin pick-ups with a K syllable.
In the Ravel:
TK T T TKTKT TKT--KTKT T...KTKT T TKTKTKTK etc.
For the Schmuyl slo from "Pictures":
kT T T Tu-ee-u, kT T T Tu-ee-u
Sheherazade also has spots that benefit from this approach.
Getting accustomed to starting on T or K with equal ease can really help a lick "trip" easily and convincingly, and make your playing more clear, accurate, and musical.
Peter Bond |
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camel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 1461 Location: holland
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:55 am Post subject: |
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I hope I do not offend anybody, by updating this topic, if so: sorry.
While playing this part, most of us forget they are making music. Because the tongueing seems to be the biggest problem. But my advise would be: make music, and don't think too much about double or single tongue. If you listen well to the music and you allow yourself to go with the music, it really happens that you're playing automatically the right way, without being bothered about your tongue.
Hope this helps |
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Dance Of Vengeance Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 106
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Just single tongue it. Is 120 really too fast to single tongue? |
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steve_fenick Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 376
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Dance Of Vengeance wrote: | Just single tongue it. Is 120 really too fast to single tongue? |
For some people, yes. Particularly for extended passages such as in the Ravel. |
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drincredible313 Regular Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 95 Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Post removed
Last edited by drincredible313 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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trumpetmike Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 11315 Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Try every way possible - be able to single it faster than you need to, but also learn the multipe tongue approach (as described by Mr Bond).
I have only had to do the part a couple of times - once was slightly slower than what one might term the "usual" speed, so single tongue was more than possible.
The other I think I singled as well - I had practised it both ways, but found that single was possible, so went for the one I preferred. |
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Umyoguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 1726 Location: Baltimore
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Here's what I use, for what its worth...
TTT T TKTKT TK T---TTK TT TTK TT TKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKT TKT TKT TKTKTKT TKTKTKTKTKT.
Probably not much different than Mr. Bond's, except for the TTK pickups just before the second line...I feel it its much clearer for me - I've never liked playing pickups starting on K.
I am able to single tongue it at 116, the defacto tempo for this excerpt IMO, but I think double tonguing it is much clearer and more articulate.
Best,
Jon |
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loudog Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2001 Posts: 1444 Location: Hastings, NE
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Not sure if anyone else does this...but I discovered something great about this excerpt a couple of weeks ago.
I had always played it on C trumpet, and somewhat struggled with it...I just couldn't make it sound quite right both double and single tonguing it.
I actually tried playing it on my D trumpet...a LO AND BEHOLD!! The problems all seemed to go away. The darn thing even lays better on D trumpet, in my opinion! Give that a try, and see what you think!
Louie (who will now always play the Ravel on D trumpet) Eckhardt _________________ -----------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Louie Eckhardt, trumpeter
http://www.LouieEckhardt.com
Associate Professor of Music
Hastings College |
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Socrates Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Posts: 150
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:08 am Post subject: |
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I second what loudog stated above. Don't be afraid to experiment with the smaller horns on this excerpt. Because the orchestra is quite smaller than normal, you don't have to worry about sounding too small. Both D, and Eb trumpet work well. I have even seen Ramon Parcells in Detroit use a four-valve Schilke G trumpet on this piece. |
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tpetplyr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2002 Posts: 1669 Location: Boston
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Love my Kanstul Signature Eb/D on this piece. It lies really really well on the D side. Not tired it on Eb, and haven't ever actually seen a G trumpet in person so I can't vouch for them. But try it on D if you have one lying around...
Stuart _________________ "So long, and thanks for all the fish!" -- Dolphins |
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Peter Bond Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 1455 Location: Metropolitan Opera
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:49 am Post subject: |
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loudog wrote: | Not sure if anyone else does this...but I discovered something great about this excerpt a couple of weeks ago.
I had always played it on C trumpet, and somewhat struggled with it...I just couldn't make it sound quite right both double and single tonguing it.
I actually tried playing it on my D trumpet...a LO AND BEHOLD!! The problems all seemed to go away. The darn thing even lays better on D trumpet, in my opinion! Give that a try, and see what you think!
Louie (who will now always play the Ravel on D trumpet) Eckhardt |
I practice it on Bb and C, but I agree about the D; the Ravel pno concerto lies very well on it.
Peter Bond |
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