Maximum speed of tonguing

_TrumpeT_ · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 1426

How fast could amazing players like Rafael Mendez tongue? What would be the human limit? Just imagine that you would not have to coordinate any valve changes and is playing the same pitch. (It would be helpful if you could give answer in the form of number of tonguings per second) On the other hand, what would be the maximum speed where you can coordinate valve changes?

Solar Bell · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:10 am Post subject:

It is limitless.
In the 30's Louis Armstrong was timed (with the old fashioned method) at the speed of 13.4 single tongues per second. (STPS). He was timed at the then amazing speed of 22.2 double tongues per second. (DTPS)

As time and tenchiniques progressed, so to speed increased. By 1941 Harry James had improved upon the speed to 15.1 STPS and 23.9 DTSP respectively.

In the fifties Rafael Mendez set a record which stood for quite a long time.
Although some people thought he should not have been allowed to hold the record due to the unfair advantage of speaking a very fast paced language,(Mexican Spanish) he was finally allowed to offcially hold the record of 18.3 STPS and the then thought of impossible to reach 26 DTPS. (Most knowlegable people thought the 25 DTPS barrier would be impossible to break.
This record was unbroken until the early 1990's when Wyton Marsalis shattered both ends of the record.

At a special session just for the purpose of breaking the record Wynton played his way ito the history books. He single tongued has an amazing speed of 22 STPS!!! His double tongue speed was recorded at 27.4 DTPS!!!.

At the awards banquet 3 days later Wynton expressed relief that the elusive records were finally his and that he could get back to his number one love of "Just making beautiful music on the world's greatest trumpet".
He confessed that he did spend a lot of time working on his patented "Tongue in Cheek" method in which in between tongue attacks the back section of the tongue would hit the sides of hid cheeks setting up sympathetic vibrations in the oral cavity which would send another blast of air toward the lips. This would increase the speed of the tongue and give it a much faster response time. Somewhat like having a car drafting you in a race which would increase your speed.

As players become bigger and better in shape, expect even Wynton's records to fall eventually. The techniques out there are just to good to have records stay for any great length of time again. Wyton will not pursue the record again. "I have nothing to prove to anyone" he is quoted as saying. "There will always be some tongue fighter looking to make a reputation, let him make it somewhere else, I'm done with this" Marsalis added, still tongue tied after three days of rest.

Look for the record to be bested... but not anytime soon.

As a side note, some mouthpiece manufactuers are developing equipment to help in the need for speed.
The Callet company is doing R&D to see if his double cup mouthpieces will increase the speed. The thinking is that by employing the through the teeth and lips method, in a double cup, you will actually hit both cups with one stroke, thereby actually doubling the speed. The Rules and Records Commitee is looking into this, but will most likely rule against the use of double cup mouthpieces as a legal way of setting a record.

-cw-
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KevinPierce · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:33 am Post subject:

Oh Ok.

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_TrumpeT_ · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 1426

schilke B6 do you mind telling me where you got this information?

RBtrumpet08 · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject:

what exactly is a double cup anyway?
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jpellett · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject:

wvtrumpet · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:48 pm Post subject:

These replies have been great..You guys made my day...

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Solar Bell · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject:

_TrumpeT_ wrote:

AYates · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:04 pm Post subject:

jpellett · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:52 am Post subject:

BlackVoid · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject:

That's nuts... my tonguing skills are crap right now, I can't imagine anyone doing it. Course, Wynton does some crazy stuff anyway, so yeah...

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mark schorah · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 668

that is just amazing, how do you learn to tounge like that?? are there any techniques you can pratice??

Mark

Jocker · Veteran Member Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 192

Um what? 22 stps?!

haha good one. No way anyone could single tongue that fast. I can't imagine anything that I could do 22 times in one second. Metronome speed would be 22*60=1320?

I tested this speed with my computer and it is physically impossible... it was almost impossible for my computer. Or did I misunderstand something?

Hack001 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1685

yeah, all thats made up. Funny though!!

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Scream machine · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:39 am Post subject:

Scream machine · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:48 am Post subject:

Here's a picture of the cup.

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PhatMon · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:57 am Post subject:

My exgirlfriend clocked me at 23 stps........makes you wonder why she is my ex....go figure.

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oldlou · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: Hey Phat Mon

I am wondering if you are bragging or telling a lie.

OLDLOU>>

Sully2302 · Regular Member Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 70 Location: NYC

deleted

Accordion Ron · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject:

Listen to Mendez playing "Jota" for amazingly fast tongueing. WOW !