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pauleverett New Member
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 1 Location: Muncie, IN
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: Where do I get a new rotary trumpet? |
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I apologize if this topic has already been discussed but I am in the market for a new or used rotary C trumpet. I have owned several second hand and would like to upgrade to a brand new one but I have no idea where to go. I have checked online with almost all retailers and have had no success. I am most interested in the Scherzer.
Thanks,
Paul |
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jcmacman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2003 Posts: 860 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to TH.
Kanstul makes rotary trumpets. Check with Pick Music, Pricilla posts here. Or you can call Charles at Kanstuls for more information on where to try one.
john _________________ I don't know anything about music. In my line, you don't have to.
Elvis Presley |
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Dave Mickley Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 749 Location: Indianapolis
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Check with Pro Winds in Bloomington, In. The last time I was there they had some rotary Scherzers [don't remember if they were C's and pics or just pics], and have a great web site. Dave _________________ formerly known as old geezer Dave
C7c,bell heat treated
Yam. 231 Fl. 15383
Weril Cornet Lo 7535
King Master Cornet 295628 |
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tpt-tooth Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 854 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I have never played a rotary so take this with a grain of salt. . .
but I have read that Scherzer's line of Bb and Cs from a few years ago were widely considered to be lemons. Their high pitched horns were supposed to be great though, but it would be risky to buy a C trumpet without testing it in person.
Kanstul is really the most obvious choice for a basic entry-level instrument, but there's always debate about whether factory horns really have "the sound" of the German hand made ones. |
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Maarten van Weverwijk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Please check out my answers on similar questions. Even last week this subject came along... You can order these instruments directly from the constructors in Germany or Austria without any problem. The prices will most likely be without tax, but you´d have to pay tax when importing the instrument into the USA.
Good luck with your search! |
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Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 984
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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tpt-tooth wrote: | I have never played a rotary so take this with a grain of salt. . .
but I have read that Scherzer's line of Bb and Cs from a few years ago were widely considered to be lemons. Their high pitched horns were supposed to be great though, but it would be risky to buy a C trumpet without testing it in person.
Kanstul is really the most obvious choice for a basic entry-level instrument, but there's always debate about whether factory horns really have "the sound" of the German hand made ones. |
The Kanstul rotaries, although they may not be as "hand-made" as some of the German and Austrian instruments, are by no means "entry-level". If you're looking for "entry-level", try the Josef Dotzauer rotaries, available through Antique Sound Workshop Ltd. |
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knatterbock Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 183
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: |
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You should take a look at David Green's Antique Sound Workshop web page to see their selection of rotory trumpets. http://www.aswltd.com/brass.htm He keeps a number of them on hand for trial.
Jim Becker
Brass Repair Specialist
Osmun Music Inc. |
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gus Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 452
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | The Kanstul rotaries, although they may not be as "hand-made" as some of the German and Austrian instruments. | [/quote]
I do not think that the Kanstul, or the Bach or anything like this is more or less handmade than the German instruments.
I have visited several horn makers. Most of them buy most parts to another factory and then they assembly the instrument. For instance, most trumpets have either the Meinlschmidt valves or Zirnbauer valves. Most buy the bells and other the leadpipes. The Unibal joints are produced by another factory and so forth.
That's the reason why they are cities where many factories are located. Markneunkirchen ( B&S, Scherzer, VMI, Knoth etc were all separate factories before were buyed by Gerhard Meinl ) and Geretsried come to my mind inmediately.
So the big difference is that Bach, Kanstul, Getzen etc makes almost everything in one place, and the assembly is made by almost the same procedure. So I would say that there is no reason to an American factory to be inferior to a German product.-
P.S. I am from Argentina, so no U.S. chauvinist and I HAVE a German Rotary in C form those atelliers, but perhaps my Bb rotary will be Kanstul if I like it enough.
Gus |
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norwegiantrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 112 Location: Åsgårdstrand, Norway
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knatterbock Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 183
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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gus
you're right! Today trumpet making here in Germany (and Austria: Schagerl, Kürner, Lechner) means buying parts from other manufacturers (bells for example from Worischek, Meinl.....) and making the final assembly, as you've stated in your post! As far as I know, even Yamaha is buying bells for their middle class rotary trumpets here in Germany (B&S?) |
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johntpt 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Feb 2002 Posts: 2284 Location: Toluca, Mexico
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Here is the USA dealer for Ricco Kühn, IMHO the best rotaries out there right now, besides being a fair bit less expensive than some other brands.
http://www.brassarts.com/trumpets.htm
JU |
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Nils Regular Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 63 Location: Germany
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Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 984
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: |
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gus wrote: |
I do not think that the Kanstul, or the Bach or anything like this is more or less handmade than the German instruments.
I have visited several horn makers. Most of them buy most parts to another factory and then they assembly the instrument. For instance, most trumpets have either the Meinlschmidt valves or Zirnbauer valves. Most buy the bells and other the leadpipes. The Unibal joints are produced by another factory and so forth.
That's the reason why they are cities where many factories are located. Markneunkirchen ( B&S, Scherzer, VMI, Knoth etc were all separate factories before were buyed by Gerhard Meinl ) and Geretsried come to my mind inmediately.
So the big difference is that Bach, Kanstul, Getzen etc makes almost everything in one place, and the assembly is made by almost the same procedure. So I would say that there is no reason to an American factory to be inferior to a German product.-
P.S. I am from Argentina, so no U.S. chauvinist and I HAVE a German Rotary in C form those atelliers, but perhaps my Bb rotary will be Kanstul if I like it enough.
Gus |
It is true that Kanstul has been buying their rotary valve blocks from a German manufacturer. I know that they had plans to make their own but I don't know if they have begun this or not. Hopefully their rotaries will become big enough sellers to justify the effort to make rotary valve blocks in Anaheim (which was, originally, a German farming community, first vineyards and then orange groves).
What I do know is that the Kanstul rotaries are very sweet horns, and would be perfectly acceptable in a professional orchestra. They are an excellent alternative for a player who may not have access to an array of German instruments to try out. |
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Maarten van Weverwijk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Since everyone started to give links of their favourite brands here is mine: http://schagerl.at/index_austria.html
Go to "Meisterinstrumente" and to "Drehventielinstrumente", check out the players list and you´ll see that a lot of the major orchestras (Like Berlin, München, Leipzig, Vienna, Chicago, Minnesota, Atlanta.....) started to use them. They are the "creme de la creme", IMHO only Dowids comes close.
A pro-line rotary trumpet will cost $3000-$5500, if you don´t use it all the time maybe not what you want to spend, but worth it every dime. In the case of Schagerl (AND many others of the top-brands): try one and you'll want one; in the end you'll think it was very cheap, considering the support the instrument gives you in concert!
I start to sound like a marketing manager
Best wishes, Maarten.
Last edited by Maarten van Weverwijk on Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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trumplyr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 1069 Location: Rochester Hills, Mi.
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Where do I get a new rotary trumpet? |
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pauleverett wrote: | I apologize if this topic has already been discussed but I am in the market for a new or used rotary C trumpet. I have owned several second hand and would like to upgrade to a brand new one but I have no idea where to go. I have checked online with almost all retailers and have had no success. I am most interested in the Scherzer.
Thanks,
Paul |
Try Chuck Levin's Washington Music (301-946-8808) ...........
http://www.wmcworld.com/
Call and ask for Lee Walkowich..........he's very knowledgeable and he'll steer you right. _________________ Marty
"Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best."
Frank Zappa |
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gus Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 452
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Maarten van Weverwijk wrote: | Since everyone started to give links of their favourite brands here is mine: http://schagerl.at/index_austria.html
Go to "Meisterinstrumente" and to "Drehventielinstrumente", check out the players list and you´ll see that a lot of the major orchestras (Like Berlin, München, Leipzig, Vienna, Chicago, Minnesota, Atlanta.....) started to use them. They are the "creme de la creme", IMHO only Dowids comes close.
A pro-line rotary trumpet will cost $3000-$5500, if you don´t use it all the time maybe not what you want to spend, but worth it every dime. In the case of Schagerl (AND many others of the top-brands): try one and you'll want one; in the end you'll think it was very cheap, considering the support the instrument gives you in concert!
I start to sound like a marketing manager
Best wishes, Maarten. |
Maarten,
I know quite a lot the Monke and the Heckel types. I always liked more the Monke because it seems to me more like a Piston trumpet and it has a bigger bore, more free blowing, and gets better with traditional mouthpieces etc. What confuses to me now is this Schagerl Horsdorf model which is a totally new design in my opinion can you chime something about it?.
Gus |
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Maarten van Weverwijk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Gus,
I´ve played many rotary trumpets over the years and since I am not only playing German trumpets, but have to switch between piston (perinet) trumpet and rotary, I always noticed it took me some time (2 or 3 days every time I needed to play one) to get used to the rotary trumpet I needed to play. Not so with the Schagerl Hörsdorf Heavy I bought a couple of years ago: I just grab it and play it. I wrote in another article: in the beginning you might notice you are trying to correct the tuning, where adjustment is really not needed: you have to learn to trust the instrument. I always had the feeling this trumpet helped me (throughout the entire concert), instead of me trying to correct (fight) the instruments shortcomings, which is the case with many, many other instruments (NOT only rotary-trumpets, but ALL trumpets).
Heckel trumpets were the first "super-brand" rotary instrument, but you have to place them in their time (1900-1954 when heckel stopped, many orchestras used them still in the 70-ies, because they were and still are
so good). Monkes and Theins for instance I find (but this is a VERY personal opinion, no offence please!) a bit stiff, so were the Heckels, although they are all really great instruments! I can't possibly give an opinion on all the instruments I played or owned, so let us concentrate on the Schagerl.
It is not true that the "play-feeling" is more or less the same as that of a perinet-trumpet (it does feel and sound fundamentally different), but it is just a heck of a lot easier to play than any of the other rotaries I ever played. Maybe the leadpipe has something to do with it: normally almost cylindrical (With most rotary trumpets), the Schagerl Hörsdorf has a slightly conical leadpipe, but so do some of the other brands. I am not a spcialist on the construction of instruments, but I can just say I NEVER played an easier playing trumpet in my life! And that being said by someone who was raised and educated with piston-valve trumpets. (Aren´t we, piston trumpeters, all a bit hesitant in the beginning, when we start playing a rotary trumpet?)
About the mouthpiece: although people say that with some models (like the Schagerl Hörsdorf) you can use a "normal" mouthpiece, it should be deeper, a bit more V-shaped and the throat should be more open than with your "ordinary" mouthpiece. But to get a good impression of the instrument you want to try, play it with your ordinary mouthpiece first. Mouthpiece choise is, however, VERY important playing a Rotary valve instrument for the sake of sound. Some instruments CAN cope with a normal Bach 1C, others can truly NOT. I did something many players do, but I DO NOT recommend this (it might end up in an expensive hobby and people might want to see me in court for having said this... ): I opened up a Bach 1B mouthpiece and cut 2 mm from the end of the mouthpiece. For ME it works great, for others I can not/will not guarantee anything! (This way I play 1B megatone on C-trumpet, 1B normal on B-flat and 1B "modified" on my rotary.) IMHO megatone-like mouthpieces don't work on a German trumpet, but I have seen people using them. The real mouthpiece brand is Breslmair.
Enough so far. I want to make clear that everything was my personal opinion and I don't mean to say ANYTHING negative about any other brand or opinion.
With very best regards, Maarten |
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trombapaul2 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 1889 Location: Detroit, MI
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Rayburn's in Boston carries Monke, Schagerl, Yamaha, Lechner, Thein and
they have many of them in stock.
www.rayburnmusic.com
Paul
P.S. I have a Kanstul C and it is, as already stated, by no means a
starter rotary. It is a very fine, well made instrument complete with the
characteristic "German rotary sound". I fully intend to pick up a Bb when
the funds make themselves available.
P.S.S. Re. mouthpieces - Hans Gansch and Heinrich Bruckner (Art of Brass
Vienna) both highly recommend the Yamaha 15E4 or 16E4. Gansch plays
Schagerl and Bruckner plays Lechner horns. _________________ "NEVER practice...ALWAYS perform" (Bud)
"NEVER look at the trombones...it only encourages them" (R. Strauss)
"What the hell does sound have to do with music?" (Charles Ives) |
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Maarten van Weverwijk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Great if at Rayburns' you can compare many of the best brands, go there!!!! And the Yamaha E-series mouthpieces (People also use D-series Schilkes) is much used and highly recommendable indeed and are easy to find. I forgot to mention them, thank you for adding them to the information "trombapaul2"
Maarten. |
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