B&S 3148/2 Flugelhorn

Ian_C · Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: B&S 3148/2 Flugelhorn

Hey guys, first time poster - lurking for a while though.

just wondering if any of you have any experience playing this horn, or have any good/bad info on it. It looks like what i'm looking for with the small bored copy cuesnon,as well, it is relatively inexpensive (if it has good intonation and tone) comes with a double gigcase. but i have to order it from germany since i cant find any around here, ive tried the gold laquered finish but this has a "brushed gold" finish instead and heavy bottom valve caps and apparently is supposed to have a "pre aged" finish, he also replied in the email that is has "additional linger tubing" (no idea what that does or means?)
Thanks.

Ian

horndevil · Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:51 am Post subject:

Welcome to the Forum! have fun. It's a great place for some really good information and a good place to hang out....especially ITP in the lounge, but you could choose to ignore that!

The Challenger Elaboration Flugel is a well made, in tune Flugel with good valves. It is however, a pure jazz instrument and would not sit well in other playing situations such as Brass Band (believe me on this, I know someone who tried and failed soooo badly on this).

If jazz is your bag, you will be hard pressed to find a beeter Flugel, particularly at the price. I think it is far superior to the Yamaha Shew.

For twice the price you could get an Eclipse, which would blow your mind!
I visited Eclipse last week and that was the first time I have played a better Flugel than my V1!!!!!

The V1 is a great Flugel too and works well in a variety of playing situations.
_________________
Haagston US3 Bb Trumpet
Conn V1 Flugel
Willson Celebration Cornet

Ian Barnes

pfrank · Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:15 am Post subject:

I'm shopping around for a flugal, and I played one last week. My favorite so far, I like the sound and the construction aspects, very comfortable, and easy to play. The valves were a bit springy (there is something about them, weaker springs might be desirable), but it might have needed oiling...it was a good value compared with the other flugs too.

ertatta · Heavyweight Member Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 856

i can't think of a better flugel to recommend.. B&S is simply making some of the finest horns and yet so many either don't know or just disregard them.
either way, the Elaboration is a wonderful horn, but i do agree with Horndevil in that it is a specialty small group-jazz horn, mind you without equal! there more standard lacquered horns are just as good, but with a more colorful-projecting sound. you really can't go wrong with any of them, especially when u take into consideration the price!

Ian_C · Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject:

Cool. Thanks for the feedback and welcome guys, I'm in Vancouver, BC and I would mainly be using this for small jazz, I've been meaning to get a flugal for the longest time and im tired of borrowing my friends Shew, (i think he is too hah) I also play in Salsa/Funk bands, jazz orchestras. but as of lately small jazz seems to really be picking up for me. This horn sounds great, but only time will tell, it should be here in about 3 weeks in which time i'll give it a try. I have a feeling the Elaboration is really going under the musician radar for some reason, or rather B&S in general, for the price and craftsmanship i'm digging what they're putting down. I'm on a 43 strad for the last 10 years or so and it does the job, looking for something a little heavier though possibly going for a monette (my wallet will wont forgive me) but i have a colleague who plays on the same setup as Ryan Kisor, dont get me wrong he doesnt sound like Ryan, but i tried it and wow was it money. (both litterally and figuratively) who knows though, i might stay with my setup till it falls apart or frustrates me.

Back to flugels for a min, the V1 sounds cool "horndevil", I tried a really sick Kanstul copper, but i dont know if im willing to drop 3500 + tax on it, i dont really play flugel that much to warrant such a purchase haha
Anyway, ciao.

Nils · Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject:

Ian_C · Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject:

yeeeeeahhh EH? another fellow canad-ia-na ..good to see, the island has some killer players and a decent scene to boot, with the likes of Hugh Fraser and Mike Harriot (amazing on both trumpet and bone) you guys aren't too shabby..

Stabilis · New Member Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 3

If you are in the UK John Myatt deal with B & S instruments. I have a trumpet and a cornet which are both excellent.

Ian_C · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject:

Hey guys,

thought i'd give you an update on what happened, I ended up actually going for a really nice French Besson Brevette made by Kanstul, yellow brass . its like a .415 bore. I got a smokin deal on it and i had to buy it right after play testing. I havent seen one of these in town and the fact that it was in mint condition and had the tone/slotting/and overall feel i was looking for made the deal sweeter. The only thing is the issue some others i have read about are having with the smaller tuning shank not fitting standard FH mouthpieces, I picked up a Dennis Wick 3BFL which fits nicely and will do the job until i find something better, any sugestions?
Cheers!

PSU Brass Guy · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: B&S Flugel's

I played a B&S and I was truly impressed. I have a old Couesnon and I was deliberating whether to put money into it and get a valve job and have it refinished or buy either a Kanstul Custom/Besson Copy or the B&S. I opted to get the Couesnon overhauled, but if not I liked the B&S better than the Kanstul. So.... go for the B&S it's nice horn and it responds well.
_________________
1994 Bach Bb 43 Lightweight
1969 Bb Getzen Eterna Large Bore
1969 Getzen Eterna C Large Bore
2005 Getzen 3850 Custom Bb Cornet
2005 Kanstul Custom Piccolo
1977 Couesnon Flugelhorn
1878 Courtois Cornet
1966 Olds Ambassador

sweets · Veteran Member Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 337

IanC
I think you made a great choice -- I really like the B+S Elaboration, but the Kanstul Besson has a slightly warmer sound which I prefer. For a French taper mouthpiece, Warburton might be a good choice. I am big fan of their "anchor grip" rims, which make for a better seal. I play an old Couesnon, which is great, but I love the besson Brevette, and regret not having bought one. I don't think Kanstul makes them any more and the company has just changed hands.

Ian_C · Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject:

Yeah, from what i have read kanstul doesnt make the brevette anymore and it was old stock that never got bought for some reason, (i have a feeling it was never on display and forgot about lol) it has such a warm tone and i really like the top sprung valves, very smooth. I also cant believe the great intonation it has as well as the rich golden laquer. it also came with a double hardshell case, at first i was kind of put off by the size of it -it was like a suitcase and i almost bought a protec double gig bag but im so glad i didnt because when i got home and took some some junk out of the case i realized it was a double HA! overall it was definitely the right choice for me.

If anyone has any more history on the horn i'd love to know about it, such as the aprox. year? the serial is 6087, i cant seem to find much out there.. the thing that sort of confuses me is that it says Paris France all over the place (ie..case..bell of the horn) but on the valves it says made in the USA (of course because thats where Kanstul builds em) so my question is what process is taken to build them -is the horn sent to him and he puts it all together? or? i might just be talking out of my ass but im curious haha

Thanks for the suggestion 'Sweets' maybe i'll look into those warburtons in the future, i actually really like the DW 3BFL im using and it fits perfect so i dont want to mess around too much.
Cheers

Flugelnut · Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:08 am Post subject:

The F. Besson Brevette (.415" bore) and Meha (.460" bore) flugels were built by Kanstul for Boosey and Hawkes roughly during the 80's and 90's, along with a range of F. Besson trumpets.
Although the bell markings (probably copied from the original, real French Bessons) say Paris-France, the horns were built completely in the Kanstul plant.
I own a Meha flugel, serial 1630, which according to Kanstul was built in '92-'94. They could't be more precise.
The horns are absolutely top-of-the-line, I like mine better than the newer Kanstuls, i.e. Custom 925 and Signature 1525.
There's more info by Jim Donaldson on www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Flugelhorn.

Ian_C · Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:02 am Post subject:

Thanks 'flugelnut' , thats some good info.

The link you put up is dead, but i have visited jim's site in the past and his flugel page is great, as well as the others, it does talk about the brevette but not that extensively. I wish I had a Meha to try along sidemine just for comparison sake, though i'm pretty sure i would go for the smaller bore brevette in the end as i seem to like that in most other cases. i've been going hard on flugel this last week getting my chops used to it again, i find for some odd reason it actually improves my trumpet tone slightly, possibly because by having that warm sound i aim for in my head for the flugal im transfering that to trumpet..
cheers

Flugelnut · Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:15 am Post subject:

Ian: I see, re-reading your original post, that you were asking for mouthpiece suggestions as well.
I recommend that you consider one of Flip Oakes' pieces. They're made by Curry and come in his rim sizes, and all 3 shank sizes. Flip's cups and throat are even larger than Denis Wick's, so if you want a broad and warm sound they're ideal.
DW's rims are torture IMO.

Uberopa · Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:36 am Post subject:

Hi Ian,

from another Canucklehead, I use an FO 3 Flugel m/p with my Benge and for the money it can't be beat imo. I have tried Bach, Yamaha, Wick and GR m/p's and the FO is the best for me. The sound ....... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Cheers,

Brian

"Swift Current - where we're neither swift nor current"

Ian_C · Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:15 am Post subject:

Haha on a sidenote ...speaking of the "Canucks", what a mess! i'm so done with that team.. Bertuzi is a whiny little girl these days

(FYI i'll probably be their biggest fan again next year like most vancouverites lol)

ANyway, back to the topic at hand ...*cough*
Thanks everyone for the advice on mouthpieces, the concensus so far seems to be geared towards the Flip Oaks.. and now that you mention it flugelnut the rim on this DW is pretty harsh, i still like the overall tone of the piece but it may be because i havent tried any others (remember i only had one choice at the time and needed something that would fit) i got another gig tonight and will really be playing this thing so that will be the teletale sign.. you guys really have me curious about the FO ones though so i want to track some down. I dont know of any local dealers here who carry them so any suggestions on where to get them from? as well as general price? (not such a big deal on the price, if its what i want)
cheers!

Flugelnut · Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:13 am Post subject:

Just drop Flip an e-mail or a phone call, he'll give you payment instructions and ship the piece immediately once he has the money.
I've ordered 3 and had them within a week, and that's The Netherlands as well!