Mouthpiece Position

j_rowe · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:52 pm Post subject:

Hi,
I have been playing trombone exclusively for almost 3 years now, and need to start back on the trumpet.
I have found that I am playing trumpet with a VERY low placement, and I've tried rolling the top lip in and putting less lower lip in the mouthpiece, but I can't even play a note then! There has to be a simple solution. The way I'm playing, I sound great, but I can't play an A above the staff!
Any advice at all???

fzr Phil · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:17 pm Post subject:

Are you using a 'technique' or just blowing/playing?
what equpment/mp are you using?
how long have you given yourself to get back into the trumpet?
But, you should be a little patient and give your 'small' embouchure a chance to re-build some strength.
good luck!
_________________
Phil Martin
Callet Sima Trumpet - GR NB63*** / dw3
Besson Sovereign tenor horn DW 3
Yamaha Maestro Cornet RW3
Yamaha pro 631 Flugel dw3fL
Yamaha YCR6610T Soprano
Elkhart pocket trumpet
www.thundersleybrassband.co.uk

j_rowe · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:22 pm Post subject:

Well, I'm just playing the way I THOUGHT I used to, but in reality, I'm not. I can't remember how I used to do it. I've now got mostly bottom lip in the mouthpiece, playing downstream into the 'piece.
I'm using a Bach 5B mouthpiece and a Holton 50 trumpet (older - 1962 - pro model that I wish I could find some info on)...Generally, I SOUND great, better than I thought I would coming back after so long, I just don't have any range anymore. I used to go to around high G, but now I can barely get out of the staff!!!

Thanks!

cp · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:35 pm Post subject:

hey there...
Listen to Phil when he says be patient. Think of it this way: you havn't really played trumpet for 3 years. The trumpet mouthpiece probably feels small, and maybe you just have the sensation of the top lip coming out. Does it look like it is when you look in a mirror?

I'll stop here and let more qualified people answer you question. Just give it some time....and good luck! Maybe find a trumpet teacher?
-Carl

j_rowe · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:45 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the replies guys, I wish my thread on the Trumpet over in Horns would get some!

Anyway, yes, even in the mirror, I can tell I'm playing too low. When I try to fix it I can't make a sound, or if I get it up a little, and still make a sound, it falls right back into a groove...

I don't have any problems with 'Bone, I play up to Triple Bb's with no trouble at all...which means, I can play a trumpets double high C on the bone, but not the trumpet!!!!!

tom turner · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:36 pm Post subject:

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

Various embouchures may work for you, but a common thread is that the top of the mouthpiece should be over the top of the red part of the upper lip. If the mouthpiece rim is resting on the red part of the lip the tendency is for it to restrict blood flow which will result in a lack of endurance. I recommend you make this adjustment right away if necessary so that a bad habit does not become ingrained.

As mentioned in a previous post, a good teacher is invaluable.
_________________
Best Regards, Play Well!!

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:27 pm Post subject:

j_rowe,

Pardon my bluntness. The information in my book will help solve your low mouthpiece placement problem. In private lessons, I switch about 30 or so players each year to a more rolled in lip setting, with incredible results.

I don't know how you used to play, but I know how you can play.

The link to my website is below.

Jeff Smiley
http://www.trumpetteacher.net

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetteacher1 on 2002-01-18 23:29 ]

j_rowe · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:35 pm Post subject:

Jeff, I've been there and sent you an email...did you get it? It was regarding DeNicola Mouthpieces...
Thanks...

Yoinks · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 258

Man, just put it where it feels good, and leave it there, then don't give it any more thought. Trying to have a "picture perfect" embochure is an empty goal. Many very famous leaders in the industry play with such a wide variety of embochure's it is amazing. Everyone has a different mouth structure, tissue density, arrangement of where certian tissues lie, teeth shape, shape of oral cavity causing the air to move differently, that it is not possible to have a single set approach for everyone. Allen Vizzuti talks about this, where he talks about the ideal embochure, but then goes on to name ten really famous players that are far and away removed from this, but it is what feels comfortable for them.

Rafael Mendez talks about this. People would often ask about his embochure. He had an accident, and then had to re-learn to play in a different spot, and in the final analysis, he said he learned that you can play in about any spot, in any position just as well if that is what you are used to. When asked about it, he would advise people usually to just stick with what they were using already.

If you ask Herseth about this, he'll tell you he never really thought about it that much, he just kind of played.

Point being, there are some guys who can sceam double C's that look like they are playing clarinet out of the side of their mouth, and others that look like they are trying to shoot down planes with their bell. Just worry more about your sound.

j_rowe · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2002 1:55 am Post subject:

First off,
I'd like to thank all of you for your thoughtful replies. I am really enjoying getting my chops back togather on the trumpet! I really discovered how much I missed playing it!
I have been told by a local trumpeter, that I respect, and work with a lot while playing bone, that I may want to look into a new mouthpiece. While my 5B with the sharp edge worked for me when I was playing exclusively, my years playing bone may have changed the muscular structure in the center of my chops...He recommended something with a softer bite. I'm thinking of actually trying a 5C, or a 3C, perhaps a Schilke 15C4 or 13C4 and see what happens. I've gotten, over the last few days of hard practice, a usable range up to high C, but with limited endurance. It may be a time to give my old 'piece a rest and try something new. I was thinking of getting in touch with DeNicola who is near my home and see if he can spin me a piece with my 5B cup, throat and backbore with more of a cushion rim.
Anyway, I think I've figured out that this may be more of a hardware problem than the software problem I originally thought it was.
Thanks again for all the help. I'm glad I found this forum. As a trombonist, I spend a lot of time at the fourm at http://www.trombone.org and I think I may have found a second home to hang out and chat!
Later guys!
Jayson

mistrad37 · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:51 am Post subject:

I play with my mouthpiece a little bit to the right of my lips. Also, I play with bottom lip much like yourself. This is what was best for me. I don't know why, but it just does. I have gone through embochure changes, however, teachers tell me to go back to my original setup because it works the best. What is most efficient for me might not be for you, that is what you must remember. Take guidlines from someone, and then elaborate on them with what feels the most comfortable to you. Coming from trombone I don't think that you will be able to stray far from having most of your bottom lip in the mouthpiece. I suggest trying to roll the top lip a little more but leave the mouthpiece in the same spot. Once when you roll the top lip, it will naturally raise the mouthpiece more on the top lip.

Don't worry about playing down stream. There are people out there that do it. In fact, I am one. I like the sound that it generates. But that is just my personal opinion.