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flaskman Regular Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Placerville, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: Tri-Labial Embouchure? |
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The name sounds fantastic!! Can somebody shed any more light on this technique. I think it is of the house of Callet, but I am not sure. |
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, it's the latest name for Tongue Controlled Embouchure ("TCE"). Look over on the Callet Forum and use the Search function to find all that's already written here about it.
Dave _________________ Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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Joe Good Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 415 Location: Vancouver, Wa (near Portland, Or)
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Is that what the guys in the Predator movies use? _________________ Live Recording:
Quad Core 2.4Ghz, 4 GB RAM, RAID 0 pair of WD Raptor 10,000 RPM Hard Drives, windows XP pro
Matched pair AKG C414XLS, various condenser and dynamic microphones. Octane Pre’s. Sonar 8, Sound Forge 9, Nuendo 3, Waves Mercury Bundle. |
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crzytptman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Where does the 3rd lip come from? Does this require a medical procedure, or a buddy? _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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crzytptman wrote: | Where does the 3rd lip come from? Does this require a medical procedure, or a buddy? |
Not sure, but I'm guessing that it's the tongue against the back of the lips and sometimes protruding between.
Yes, I think the name is unfortunate and not near as clear as Tongue Controlled Embouchure. It conjures up a bunch of images not conducive to trumpeting.
Dave _________________ Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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tptguy Jerome Callet Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3380 Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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In describing his embouchure as Tongue Controlled, Jerry Callet found that a number of students were not getting the full picture of the 3 interrelated surfaces, the top of tongue and both lips. A doctor suggested that the term tri-labial would give a more accurate, more balanced picture. So, Jerry has been trying that term on for size. I imagine it helps some and makes things more cloudy for others. Though the term is essentially interchangeable with Tongue Controlled, it does show a slightly different shading that Jerry now uses in his teaching. Best regards, Kyle |
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flaskman Regular Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Placerville, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: OK same thing as TCE |
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although I think Callet may want to check witht he porn industry to see if that name isn't already copyrighted! |
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Mikeytrpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 5028 Location: Richfield, Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I would think having a female buddy to "practice" it with is a great idea.......
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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The diagrams should be interesting. |
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defrancop Regular Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 15
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: Tri-Labial Tongue |
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This is something new out of the Callet Studio, and no it is not TCE. It is a lot like TCE, accept you put the tip of your tongue behind the lower teeth and push the tongue forward while keeping the tip anchored behind the lower teeth. This pushes the top surface of the tongue muscle in between the teeth while maintaining contact with the upper and lower teeth, and lower and upper lips. You dont blow air, you just use the air pressure inside of the mouth. The higher you go the less you blow air and the more you push the tongue forward, all the time keeping the tip of the tongue behind the bottom teeth.
Phillip DeFranco
Freelance Trumpet Artist- NYC
Endorsing Artist- NYTC by Possegger Bb Trumpets and Eclipse Bb Cornets
http://www.phillipdefranco.com/
http://www.eclipsetrumpets.com/
http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com/artists.htm |
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ljazztrm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Hey Phil, that sounds like the same thing as anchor tonguing to me....All the best, Lex. _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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digs Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 498 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Phil,
Are you sure it's behind the lower teeth? That would be significantly different, as I've got the tip of my tongue in front of the lower teeth...
Digs |
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Tri-Labial Tongue |
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defrancop wrote: | This is something new out of the Callet Studio, and no it is not TCE. It is a lot like TCE, accept you put the tip of your tongue behind the lower teeth and push the tongue forward while keeping the tip anchored behind the lower teeth. This pushes the top surface of the tongue muscle in between the teeth while maintaining contact with the upper and lower teeth, and lower and upper lips. You dont blow air, you just use the air pressure inside of the mouth. The higher you go the less you blow air and the more you push the tongue forward, all the time keeping the tip of the tongue behind the bottom teeth.
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That's quite a change Phil. Thanks for clarifying. Did you get this directly from Callet? Do you think that he's going to produce a new book?
Anyone at the ITG session, is this what Callet was demonstrating at that session?
Dave _________________ Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: |
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"Hey Phil, that sounds like the same thing as anchor tonguing to me....All the best, Lex."
Sure sounds like Anchor Tonguing, Dorsal Tonguing to me as well. |
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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TCE is a type of anchor tonguing and always has been. The question is where you anchor your tongue. TCE had us anchored to the back of the lips. Now, it sounds like this TLE has anchor the back of the bottom teeth AND the lips.
Dave _________________ Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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digs Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 498 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I think we are getting off track here. Behind the teeth just does not seem correct to me. Unfortunately we are in the wrong forum.... perhaps Kyle will see this thread and give us an opinion.
I still feel that TCE and TLE are the same thing, just two different names.
Digs |
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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digs wrote: | I think we are getting off track here. Behind the teeth just does not seem correct to me. Unfortunately we are in the wrong forum.... perhaps Kyle will see this thread and give us an opinion.
I still feel that TCE and TLE are the same thing, just two different names.
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Here's what Phil Defranco said:
"It is a lot like TCE, accept you put the tip of your tongue behind the lower teeth and push the tongue forward while keeping the tip anchored behind the lower teeth. This pushes the top surface of the tongue muscle in between the teeth while maintaining contact with the upper and lower teeth, and lower and upper lips. You dont blow air, you just use the air pressure inside of the mouth. The higher you go the less you blow air and the more you push the tongue forward, all the time keeping the tip of the tongue behind the bottom teeth."
He says it as if he "knows" it, so I'm taking him at his word.
Dave _________________ Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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plunkett Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2002 Posts: 564 Location: Wheeling, WV
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I talked to Jerry Callet at the ITG conference... He told me to put my tongue against the lower lip, not against the lower teeth. When he demoed it, he had his tongue in front of his lower teeth and when he did the workshop the same thing was true. I'm not sure where Phil got the anchor tongueing version. I've been using TCE (aka TLE) since the conference, BTW, and like it a lot.
Pat |
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tptguy Jerome Callet Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3380 Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Gads, where does this stuff come from?!
As Jerry continues to evolve his TCE teachings, particularly his remedial exercises, the process gets different shadings. Apart from shadings, the system has stayed the same since it was published in "Trumpet Secrets" - actually a couple years before that. The term Tri-Labial is a new shading but should be used interchangeably with TCE. In actual use (apart from some remedial exercises), the tongue supports and articulates in front of the teeth, never behind. Jerry has insisted on this for 30 years and never changed. Anchor tonguing, as described above, is an articulation type for air controlled embouchures. Therefore, it has no application to TCE. Readers are always encouraged to check out the Callet forum for more info or to post questions. Best regards, Kyle |
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ljazztrm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Kyle, when is the last time you saw or spoke with Jerry? I think, knowing Jerry like you do, you have to admit it is indeed possible that he has changed something in his method since the ITG...After all, he's always experimenting. The more I think about it the more I wonder if he is talking about having the tip of the tongue behind the lower teeth and, somehow, still getting the front center portion of the tongue through the lips....Anyway, maybe you could talk to him soon and clear up any further confusion. Thanks and all the best, Lex. _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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