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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2019 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: Suggested Valve Trombone Brand? |
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I'm considering picking up a valve trombone for a couple reasons.
My Dad is fading fast but is still a pretty good trombonist...I'd just like to duet with him a few times for funs sake (we've done trumpet/trombone duets for over 20 years - what a joy it's been). He does the slide and although I've played around with his, I'm more interested in the valve trombone.
I find them used at bargain prices (mostly Ebay) but probably won't go the Monique, Rosetti, Tristar route for obvious reasons. This leaves resale Getzen, Bach, Olds, King...And I'm open to suggestions here - and your past exeperience. I'd prefer a used horn for 1/3 the money of a new one; still the above old brands are fine for resale trumpets - and I hope for valve trombones, too. Give me your best, folks (opinion, that is)!
Thanks! ![](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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bkonstans1 Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 297 Location: Aurora, Illinois
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Now I don't dabble too much into the world of trombones of any sort, but I do know that King makes pretty good trombones. They've got a pretty good one for lead trombone jazz playing, I hear. So my instinct is to go with a King valve bone. I also know that Bach makes some good trombones too, so if you could find a Bach valve bone I think that would be a good option too.
Waiting for someone more knowledgeable to correct me if I'm wrong,
Benny _________________ Bennett Konstans
University of Illinois, Chicago Brass Band, Cavaliers Drum and Bugle Corps
Bach Strad Bb, Yamaha Xeno C, Yamaha Cornet, Couesnon Flugelhorn. GR Mouthpieces |
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so55 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 219
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Yamaha YSL-354V. Might be cheaper than King or Bach but good enough for your purposes. |
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plp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 7023 Location: South Alabama
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:06 am Post subject: |
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There was a model Getzen I played in college that was outstanding, not sure what it was but it was not the 300 series. Kings are usually pretty good, as well as Conn and Holton.
Beware of school owned horns on ebay, especially the ones with the school's name stenciled on the side. If a budget strapped director figures it is not worth putting in another student's hands, it is usually going to need a valve rebuilt, minimum. I went through a few of these before I got a good one, and find a lot of the intonation problems with valve bone are a direct result of loss of compression. |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2019 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Excellent thoughts, folks; just as I had hoped.
Thanks! And keep it coming if you will...
![](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
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Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I would not recommend buying one sight unseen. They have the widest range of pitch issues of any instrument I know of.
That's one reason you might want to look into a bass trumpet.
Bob Brookmeyer told me that the mid-60s Conn valve bone was his favorite. I was able to get hold of one, but due to the large size of my hands I wasn't able to comfortably hold it (the first time I did a gig on it I got a pinched nerve in my left hand that practically paralyzed my hand for a couple weeks).
I have a 60s-ish Martin Committee valve bone that is excellent. I also like the older Bach valve bone, and the late 70s early 80s Getzen (designed by Rich Matteson). I don't have much experience with any others . . . wait, I had a Yamaha briefly when they first came out with them in the early 90s and I just didn't ever like it.
Keep us posted! _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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trumphat Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 214 Location: Hamburg,NY
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I have a King 2B valve that I bought used and it's a very good horn, and I have to say I like the older Conns too. As with any horn - you have to try it before you buy it. You might try a Yamaha 45A mpc. with it. I had always played a Bach 12C with my valve or slide 2B's, but I happened to try the 45A and it plays great. Good luck |
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vic Veteran Member
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Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 141 Location: Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: Olds Super? |
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My friend in our church band plays an Olds Super valve 'bone.
Does anyone have any experience with these? It appears to date from the '50's or '60's.
Thanks,
Vic |
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Tom LeCompte Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3341 Location: Naperville, Illinois
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Rich is right - there is a huge variation in intonation among valve trombones.
There is no point in building a slide trombone in tune, right? That's the one instrument that you don't have to worry about intonation, so why make other compromises in order to improve intonation? Then when the company builds a valve trombone, what's the natural starting point for the design? Their slide trombone model.
So that's why valve trombones have intonation that can often scare the children. |
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DCB1 Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Try the Blessing B-170. Nice sound and a great price. You can also get a slide for it if you need.
http://www.brassreview.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/2022
Sorry to here about your dad.
Peace _________________ DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Get a euphonium! Every valve t-bone I've tried has been atrocious, and that's been a bunch. Send me a PM and you can come over and try my "euph;" it's a good-playing stock Yamaha. Heck, maybe I'll even let you borrow it, or the low Bb DEG marching horn!
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Last edited by bike&ed on Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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I have an Olds "Marching trombone" that serves very nicely as a valve trombone, but is shorter and less apt to bump into anything. It sounds like a good valve 'bone, and plays pretty well. Other marching bones I've played "like the King Flugelbone) just don't sound like trombones, though I've heard that Blessing bought the Olds design, so those might be good. And a marching Trombone will feel more like a trumpet to your hands. _________________ BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces. |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4812
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plp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 7023 Location: South Alabama
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: |
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BeboppinFool wrote: | I would not recommend buying one sight unseen. They have the widest range of pitch issues of any instrument I know of.
That's one reason you might want to look into a bass trumpet.
Bob Brookmeyer told me that the mid-60s Conn valve bone was his favorite. I was able to get hold of one, but due to the large size of my hands I wasn't able to comfortably hold it (the first time I did a gig on it I got a pinched nerve in my left hand that practically paralyzed my hand for a couple weeks).
I
Keep us posted! |
Yipes! Did you ever try the 'Maynard' grip under the valve casings? I had the same problem when I first got my 5-G, then modified it to let the instrument just rest on my left hand, rather than gripping the casing in the traditional manner. I noticed the way the tubing is curved at the bottom of the casing seems to encourage that type of grip.
Now if I can ever figure out the correct way to hold a Conn Director cornet, it is all good. |
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tom turner Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 6648 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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I've got a vintage 1964 Olds valve + slide trombone combination that's the best of both worlds. It actually came that way in the case that holds both the slide and valve assembly.
T. |
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Billy Regular Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 73
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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My first valve bone back in the 60's was a Getzen, which was garbage. Next I bought an older King 3B Silversonic w/ valve attachment that served me well for 20 years. I bought a new COnn in the 1980s that literally disintegrated in my hands while playing, again garbage. I came across a pro model Olds from the 50's that was not as stuffy as the King and played that for a few years. Two years ago I finally found the valve bone, a 1955 Conn 5G. Wonderful horn. In the many years I have been playing, I have found the King trombonium from the 50's to also be a kick. Just my thoughts and experience on the topic. |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2019 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, Folks... Thanks for all the tidbits and thoughts on valve trombones; I appreciate it very much.
I kinked out on the 'valve' aspect, sorry to say, and picked up a nice Bach student model slide trombone at a local pawn shop. Let me tell you - there are a lot of pawn shops in the greater Houston metro area.
I shelled out the exhorbitant sum of $130.00 (that's including tax) and wound up with a great slide (my Dad was very impressed), very decent horn (a few scratches, very few dings) and a nice hard shell case, too. I figured that if I could muster a good tone I'd try and spend a bit more for a valve trombone later. I've had a blast with it so far.
I got together with my Dad the 4th of July - it was a great time. I lent him an extra trumpet of mine a few weeks back for him to practice on; I think it has occupied his mind some. He showed me a few scales on the trombone and was quite complimentary on my mid range and lower tone (as a retired pastor he couldn't honest say much good about my upper range tone...I'm sure you all understand that at first... ).
We used to duet in churches playing, "When the Saints Go Marching In" and always had a great time of it; me on the trumpet and him on trombone. While not nearly so proficient on the trombone, by the end of the afternoon we performed a trombone duet "When the Saints..." just for our own pleasure, of course. It was a thrill.
It was a great time together; he's 88 now and I'm 47. Again, many of you probably know what it's like to see parents fade. When I called him the next day, a few hundred miles away, he teared up and told me, "It was one of our best times..."
Thank God for music. And for great parents, too.
And again - thanks for your tips - I do hope to pick up a valve trombone sometime in the future. _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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jhaysom Veteran Member
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 313 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'll second the recommendation for the King 2B. I used to have a Blessing but after trying a King 2B at a jam session, I just had to buy one. It hasn't disappointed me. Beautiful warm tone and very easy to play. _________________ John Haysom
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada
Yamaha 8310ZS trumpet
Yamaha 6310ZS trumpet
Courtois flugel
1941 King Silvertone cornet
1941 King 2B valve trombone
Kanstul 920 piccolo
etc. |
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excelsiorcornetband Regular Member
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 53 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Here are some valve trombones that I've liked over the years:
• Bach Strad (that's what I play now)
• Bach Strad bass trumpet (rather pricy)
• King 2B (narrow wrap is not very ergonomic)
• 1950s/60s Olds (good all-around v-bone)
• 1920s/30s Conn 4G (very good for trumpeters because of the better balance and smaller bore) _________________ www.excelsiorcornetband.com
www.jeffstockham.com
Conn 10B Coprion Trumpet
Martin Committee Trumpet
Olds Clark Terry Fluglehorn
Stratton OTS Eb Cornet
Hall & Quinby Side-action Rotary Eb Cornet
NY Bach Apollo G Bugle
And about 200 others... |
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