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rickster
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Newtown Ct
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 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: Ray Anthony |
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| No Harry James, NO Ray Anthony----- it's that simple---- |
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Tony Scodwell
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1961
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: No Harry, no Ray |
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Maybe I'm missing something...
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns
"Live In The Studio" by the Tony Scodwell Big Band now at CD Baby
Coming soon from Hal Leonard, the Tony Scodwell Big Band Play Along |
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rickster
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Newtown Ct
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: Ray Anthony |
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| It's pretty obvious that Anthony patterned his whole style of playing after Harry James -- I'm with Harry on this --- Ray "Agony" indeed-------- |
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qbert
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 901
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: Re: Harry James and Ray Anthony |
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| Quote: | | ...Harry could've called the shots at his peak in the forties in whatever medium was around at the time. It appears he did just that. To put in it perspective, Harry was the biggest music star of his day, quite comparable with, say, the Rolling Stones... |
It's pretty well known that Harry was penniless at the end of everything. Was it his drinking or were there other factors involved ? It's a shame that he was such a huge success and such a great admired player and then at the end he suffered instead of enjoying his "golden" years with dignity and joy. Does anyone have any thoughts on this ? |
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trpthrld
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Mikeytrpt
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Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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Location: Richfield, Minnesota
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Tony Scodwell
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1961
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: Harry and money |
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Harry LOVED to gamble...big, and his drinking exploits were famous. We did the Ed Sullivan show in 1968 which had a noon rehearsal and live broadcast at 6pm. Harry had knocked off a fifth of Smirnoff by 2pm and another fifth by 6pm. I had been on the Tommy Dorsey band twice before and learned the third and fourth part on "Marie" with Bunny's famous chorus played by the entire trumpet section. On this particular Sullivan show billed as a tribute to Irving Berlin, Nat Pierce wrote [copied] the Dorsey chart on "Marie" and this was assigned to Harry's band. Harry ,of course, was to play Bunny's famous chorus over the section. I was about to play the second part when Harry yelled back telling me to "catch my part Babes". So I played the first part and Harry stood out front listening. As I said, the Smirnoff was flowing and right before the live show downbeat I asked Harry which part he wanted me to play. "Catch my part Babes" was his reply. I [wrongly] assumed he had a bit too much vodka and wasn't up to playing the part. Believe me when I tell you, Harry James could've played that part in his sleep upside down and backwards regardless of what he had consumed. That was a solo made famous by Bunny Berigan, not Harry James, and the producer of the Sullivan Show should have known that. Harry stood out front and looked like he was playing, never letting on that he felt the slightest wrong. I guess that was a long winded explanation of why Harry died broke. Mostly gambling in my opinion, but he left this earth with a new girlfriend, leading his band and playing his trumpet, totally broke. Who's to say he was wrong? The drawback was he was only 67 years old.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns
"Live In The Studio" by the Tony Scodwell Big Band now at CD Baby
Coming soon from Hal Leonard, the Tony Scodwell Big Band Play Along |
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Rich G
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Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 2998
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wonderful insights Tony. Thank you. Please keep them coming.
FWIW, one of my absolute favorite solos to play is the Harry James solo on You'll Never Know (How Much I love You). I still think it's one of the most beautiful ballads ever written. The big band leader I play with honored me by giving me Harry's solo on his arrangement after I gave him CD copies of my Harry James record collection. He told me he gave me that solo because of the reverence I had for Harry James. The first time we rehearsed the arrangement my sound went on auto-pilot and immediately broadened with a mid-1940's solo vibrato.
When I finished, the whole band applauded and the female vocalist came up to me with tears in her eyes and gave me a big kiss on the cheek. She said she never heard anything played with such feeling. I felt really humbled. I am not in any way, shape, or form remotely close to Harry James, but I felt him within me as I played it.
The lead trumpet player said to me afterward: "relax, you don't have to try out for the band, but if you did, that would have locked it up for you". Harry James (and Bobby Hackett) moved me like nobody else. What inspirations for so many of us.
Thank you again, Tony, for your wonderful insights.
Another FWIW. I play occasionally with a former member of Harry James last trumpet section, Louise Baranger. I asked her once if there was any truth to the notion that circulated that Harry James didn't have much range. She said that rumor was the biggest nonsense going around. She said that he had an effortless "A" above high C anytime he wanted it, but he refused to get hung up on extreme range. And, yes, she said he really did play the same Parduba "Harry James model" double cup mouthpiece for decades.
Check out Louise's tribute to Harry... talk about r-e-v-e-r-e-n-c-e.
http://www.trumpetblues.com/
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qbert
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 901
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Harry and money |
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| Tony Scodwell wrote: | | Harry LOVED to gamble...big, and his drinking exploits were famous. ...I guess that was...why Harry died broke. Mostly gambling in my opinion... |
The lesson here kids: Don't drink or gamble to a point where it messes up everything else. Better yet, don't do it at all !  Maybe Ray Anthony saw all this and steered clear of it because he saw what it did to his predecessor. Very wise. A lesson in it for all of us folks ! |
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JoeCool
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 2238
Location: Wimberley, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Three words sum up Ray Anthony for me. Too much vibrato. 
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qbert
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 901
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| JoeCool wrote: | | Three words sum up Ray Anthony for me. Too much vibrato. |
Too much vibrato, not enough hair.  |
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toughcritic
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Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 153
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Ray Anthony |
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[quote="connloyalist"] "Can anyone tell me anything about Ray Anthony besides what I can find on Wikipedia? I heard some of his recordings the other day and it sounded interesting enough to dig a little deeper. Couldn't find anything here with a search though. "For many years and maybe even today Ray Anthony had a mail order record service called Big Bands Records. He had access to many older recordings of the big bands and had also acquired all the masters of his own Capitol recordings. I ordered many CDs of Harry James' band from him and you could speak directly to Ray on the phone. Once, when ordering one of Harry's CDs Ray said, "Don't you want any of mine?" I was a little surprised at his very serious remark. I chided him on using such tacky low level art on his new album covers, and, being a nationally published illustrator and protrait artist I made a pitch to him about doing a reallly great illustration of him for one of his covers. I shot him a fair price and he almost had a coronary. I think he is probably in ownership of the first nickel he ever made. He never was iclose to being in the same category with Harry as a soloist or technician. He was on the original Glenn Miller band when he was 18 and I read that he was a personality problem then. He was principally a sweet schmaltzy balladeer although his band put out some great recordings in the '50's. He tried to copy Harry in every way possible even to dressing like him with the same style shirts, jackets etc. In '50's photos of the Big Band Leaders Association in DOWNBEAT magazine Anthony was always seated next to Harry dressed just like him. I think Harry probably put up with him much like a bratty little brother.
Dick Bobnick (toughcritic)
www.dickbobnick.com |
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mffan
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 1197
Location: Kalamazoo, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Go to www.parabrisas.com/index.php It is a site called "Solid" and says it is the encyclopedia of big band and lounge, classic and space age sound. Look under the A's for Ray Anthony and there is an informative page on him and career with links to associated data. His real name was Raymond 'Antonini, born Jan 20.1922 in Bentleyville, Pa and was married to Mamie Van Doren and his theme was "Man With a Horn" This is a site than keep you occupied for a long time looking up various groups.
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1960's B & H Embassy Trumpet, Besson 2-20,
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Last edited by mffan on Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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qbert
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 901
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Ray Anthony |
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| toughcritic wrote: | | I chided him on using such tacky low level art on his new album covers, and, being a nationally published illustrator and protrait artist I made a pitch to him about doing a reallly great illustration of him for one of his covers. I shot him a fair price and he almost had a coronary. I think he is probably in ownership of the first nickel he ever made...
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Funny story. Your site is amazing and you are a very talented artist ! Just curious, what was the price you quoted Ray to do his album cover ? |
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toughcritic
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Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 153
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Ray Anthony |
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| qbert wrote: | | toughcritic wrote: | | I chided him on using such tacky low level art on his new album covers, and, being a nationally published illustrator and protrait artist I made a pitch to him about doing a reallly great illustration of him for one of his covers. I shot him a fair price and he almost had a coronary. I think he is probably in ownership of the first nickel he ever made...
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Funny story. Your site is amazing and you are a very talented artist ! Just curious, what was the price you quoted Ray to do his album cover ? |
gbert:
Email me at my address and I will be glad to give you a quote. |
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skootchy
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Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1661
Location: Naugatuck, CT
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Ray Anthony |
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[quote="toughcritic"] | connloyalist wrote: | He tried to copy Harry in every way possible even to dressing like him with the same style shirts, jackets etc. Dick Bobnick (toughcritic)
www.dickbobnick.com |
For awhile there didn't Ray Anthony have this trench coat and hat thing going on?
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Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O |
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skootchy
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Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1661
Location: Naugatuck, CT
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, almost forgot, I believe Anthony played the same mouthpiece...Parduba 5*, just like Harry....Don't know what horn he used, that would be interesting. Wonder if it was a balanced Selmer?? 
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Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O |
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toughcritic
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Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| skootchy wrote: | | Oh yeah, almost forgot, I believe Anthony played the same mouthpiece...Parduba 5*, just like Harry....Don't know what horn he used, that would be interesting. Wonder if it was a balanced Selmer?? |
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Yes, he did use a Parduba and played a Selmer trumpet although I don't believe it was the Harry James balanced model as Anthony was short and didn't need the balanced trumpet for longer arms as Harry did. He also married a blonde move star, Mamie Van Doren, although she was never in the class of a Betty Grable. |
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trpthrld
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qbert
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 901
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| trpthrld wrote: | as I recall, both Betty and Mamie were "balanced" quite nicely in their own ways......is there possibly a pattern here?  |
I beg to differ sir ! Mamie was delightfully bottom heavy, while Betty was enchantly endowed on top... Sort of the Raquel Welch "charm"...
I'm sure Ray " Badda-Bing-Badda Boom " Anthony had a " very nice " time helping balance them both out !! ( Of course I mean balancing social engagements with family demands and work ! )
Badda-Bing-Badda Boom baby ! |
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