aperture therapy

[dobs]

I understand, Matt. And I understand that Claude Gordon has produced many fine trumpet players using his approach to playing and teaching. So have Adam, Jacobs, Reinhardt, Caruso, Thompson, you name it.

I think my point is that, while there is only one way a trumpet produces a sound, there are various approaches to "teach your body" to make your trumpet sound the way you desire, some of which may contain off-horn exercises to strengthen the lips (like the pencil exercise).

That having said, I am now also working from your book and I have started taking lessons from Jeff. So, I am open to Claude's method as I am open to anyone else's ideas as long as they work for me.

I'd be interested to read what Eric has to say about this, as he is a Gordon student and teacher as well.

[Matt Graves]

dobs:

1. You know that "practicing given exercises with mouthpiece in horn on chops" will develop certain abilities.

2. What does doing the pencil exercises develop in and of itself?

3. How will you know if the pencil exercise is developing movements and or tissue in such a way as to work against what you will be developing by "practicing given exercises with mouthpiece in horn on chops" ?

4. How will you know if the pencil exercise is developing movements and or tissue in such a way as to work with what you will be developing by "practicing given exercises with mouthpiece in horn on chops" ?

Just wondering what your take is on the above.
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[dobs]

matt,

i am not particular in favor of the "pencil exercise" nor am i against it. Also, I don't currently do the pencil exercise and I am nowhere a sknowledgable about trumpet playing mechanics as you are. So I am probably not the right person to argue this point with you and this was not the intention of my post either.

My understanding so far is that the muscles around the lips need to withold a certain pressure that increases as you go higher and that it therefore may make sense to develop these muscles to a certain extent. This is probably something that any trumpet teacher or player using any method would agree with.

Opinions differ on the way to achieve this goal. Gordon, just as Adam and Jacobs, tell you to forget about the lips (or not pay too much attention to them) as they will developo naturally by playing the trumpet. Others aim to develop these muscles with separate exercises, some of them being "off the horn". These may include lip buzzing or a pencil. Patrick Hession seems to use a particular device called the "facial flex".

In terms of determining whether it works for or against your exercises, I would probably judge that by the extent your playing improves or does not improve. If it does not help, try something different.

My personal experience with off horn lip strengthening exercises is, that they helped me out of a rather severe embouchure problem I had 15 years ago. At least so I think.

[Matt Graves]

dobs:

I am certainly not just arguing the matter here, and certainly not trying to invalidate your opinion. I would like to provoke some common sense thought and share my own views. My intent is also to try to help anyone who might be reading (and writing) this post.

How strong do the muscles and/or tissue have to be? I believe the answer is strong enough. Overdoing or developing something other than what you need is certainly not a help. At best such a thing is simply not using your time in the wisest way and at its worst a hindrance that has to be undone.

[John Mohan]

[John Mohan]

[EBjazz]

Gee whiz, it's nice to be so popular!
I usually stay away from these debates because it takes too much time away from my pencil er, I mean trumpet. But since someone asked for me...
As a teacher of trumpet, I am presented with the daily task of solving my students problems-both musically and physically. My students run the gamut from beginner to college music majors. It has helped me over the years to get a basic understanding of as many methodoligies as possible so that I may be better prepared to help a student. These forums have been very helpful in that manner. I don't consider myself an expert on Stamp, Caruso or BE, but I've personally gone through the methods, read as much as I can and received in person guidence when available so that I can present these ideas clearly to my students and demonstrate the techniques involved.
Although I was a student of Claude, I am first a student of the trumpet.
I loved Claude like a father, but even my father doesn't know everything.
In teaching trumpet, nothing is black and white.
Some people will benefit from buzzing-it may be just what they need to open that door.
Some people will benefit from pedal tones- it may help them get over that hump.
Some people will benefit from the pencil.
It's my job to determine what will help a student the most and teach them to use that technique correctly.
I am always eager to learn new things about trumpet and music because it can help me and my students.
It saddens me when teachers claim that a particular technique (buzzing, pedals, pencil) is worthless because they are closing their eyes to something that may help a student down the road.

Eb
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[John Mohan]

Hi Eric,

I just want to clarify a few things:

First, I concede that some very great players and some great teachers, such as James Stamp advocate various buzzing exercises. I'm just not convinced that it was the buzzing exercises that "did the trick" for these players. If they had spent the time they spent buzzing playing instead, flexibilities and tech studies, who's to say they wouldn't be even better players?

Secondly, I am not disagreeing with you regarding the idea that buzzing exercises / pencil exercises can be beneficial. They can be beneficial, but:

For most I think they are harmful because they do not necessarily exercise the embouchure muscles in the same way as when we play, and however much time is spent doing them is time that could have been spent actually practicing, which I think gives the most development per time spent (assuming one is practicing correctly).

In particular, when doing "free-buzzing" and pencil exercises, where a mouthpiece isn't even utilized, the (otherwise) player cannot have any assurance that his lips/face is in the best position for playing.

At least with mouthpiece buzzing, the student has a reasonable chance of having the lips in the right position. But why buzz when one can play? (No need to answer, it's just a metaphorical question).

If I were stuck on a desert island with only a mouthpiece, I'd most certainly buzz it a bit (when I wasn't busy building a raft). But if I didn't have a mouthpiece handy, I'd just spend any trumpet related time doing breathing exercises - or perhaps, swimming...

I was musing this whole idea as I went through my routine yesterday. I'm getting myself back in shape because I plan to go back into at least part time pro playing again. I've been at it for several months now and as I went up through my Systematic Approach exercises I noticed how the very high notes require max air power, but not max lip/face compression. It's the air power strength that needs to by hyper-developed, not the face strength. (Perhaps for the 280lb player that could also be a Linebacker, he's got all the air power and just needs to develop some face/lip strength). But for most of us, I think most of the strength building is in the air power area, and most of the coordination development is in the tongue and lip/face area.

Let the air save the lips. The air does the work. This isn't only Claude's and Clarke's admonitions. Maynard Ferguson talks about it on that clinic video I see on youtube once in a while:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXHuxqCfvMQ

[Air Molecules Mover]