Intonation on Schilke B5

tp2038 · Regular Member Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Posts: 26

My Schilke B5 has an intonation problem.

F on the 5th line of the staff goes quite sharp. I have to pull the 1st slide about 1-2cm. Other notes are fine. Valve alighment seems OK with my naked eyes. I tried other mouthpieces. But the mouthpieces did not fix it.

Other trumpets I have do not have this intonation problem.

Are there things I should try to fix this problem?

Thanks.

sunburstbasser · Heavyweight Member Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 933

I seem to recall that Schilke made the 1st valve slide a little shorter than standard to get the 4th line D in tune, then put the saddle on there to get other notes that would be sharp in tune.

Are you using Schilke mouthpieces? On the occasions I've played the horns, Schilke's own mouthpieces seemed to really help them play better.

You could also contact Schilke directly; they might be able to tell you whats going on or fix it.
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aceswildtru · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject:

Pocket Monkeys · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posts: 350

I second, and third, the above statements. I've always found Schilke trumpets respond better in almost every aspect when using a Schilke mouthpiece.

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1621

I play a B5 and don't find the F to be a problem. I do use a Schilke mouthpiece, but on occasion have used others with no problems. I do have a lot of Schilke mouthpiece. If you are near East TN and wish to try some, send a pm.
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crzytptman · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject:

I played a B5L for about 18 yrs. The last 6 or so I had modified it with a B1 bell and tuning slide w/o water key. The intonation on that horn was spot on. I always used a Schilke piece - 14A4, 14B4E, 15C4. The last 4 yrs or so I used Callet pieces which are long like Schilke. Never an intonation problem.
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tp2038 · Regular Member Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Posts: 26

I took a look at the length of the 1st valve slide. It is indeed physically shorter than those of other horns I have. I am using Stork XS2. I will try Schilke 18 or 20 size. I think I should get a new 1st slede with proper length. BTW, do all Schilkes have a shorter 1st slide? I also hate switch MP.

I simply cannot use saddle and lip to get the right F for the fast passages. Band members feel I made a mistake when I hit F.

Appreciate your input.

tptguy · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:02 am Post subject:

Perhaps try a Callet SC3 mouthpiece. It's about the diameter of a Bach 10.5 and has outstanding intonation. I've heard it clear up intonation problems on literally hundreds of horns. And, I think you'll find you have a lot more power and core on it too. Plus, the rim is super comfortable. Good for all styles. - Kyle

sunburstbasser · Heavyweight Member Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 933

Schilke trumpets are pretty flexible in pitch, generally. If the slide is really so short that both the saddle AND lipping aren't getting that note in tune, I'd say its time to get a new one.

While I think Schilke has some of the best quality control out there, they may have cut that slide just a little shorter than they should have. Is that 4th line D sharp at all? Are your other 1st valve notes out of tune?

If it really is the slide that is the problem, get in touch directly with Schilke. Pat and Phil are both excellent to work with.

Good luck getting your horn working! I love the B5 and hate to hear it when someone isn't happy with a pretty pricey horn.
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etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 1299

How about playing it as 23 with 3rd slide kicked out? That is, using the partial that played open slots between Bb and A above staff?

WildCat · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 1572

Are either the internal pads, or top felts worn? This may be a little obsessive of me, but I try and re-pad my horns roughly once every year and a half, or so. These things thin-out faster than most people think, and can make a once great horn into something that's a hassle to play, due to the alignment issues it can cause.
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Jerry · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:51 am Post subject:

Call Schilke: 708.343.8858

Tell them what you wrote here. They are a terrific company to deal with.

Christian K. Peters · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: intonation on a Schilke B5

Hello all,
The folks are really encourage the use of a Schilke mouthpiece on their horns. I recently had to replace the leadpipe/receiver as it had rounded out. I have used Warburtons for the last 20 years, and they really thought that the slotting of my A above the staff would improve if I went back to their pieces. That had been one of my complaints, but then my horn is 30+ years old. I have not noticed an issue with F's on my B2L. I will have to compare the slide to my friends B6 and see if they are different in length. His is a late 70's horn.
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Ed Kennedy · Veteran Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 477

Give Phyllis Stork a call. The Studiomaster pieces have a short shank which may be compounding your problem. John can probably turn you a hybrid which would "Schilke-ize" the Stork mouthpiece and you wouldn't have to change rims.

aceswildtru · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:34 am Post subject:

ALLCHOPS · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject:

lipshurt · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject:

I dont think you are going in the right direction.
When one note is way out like that, it is usually a tiny leak at a seam. Only that one note has a node that hits that leak just right to make it way out of tune.

Do an under water test with a rubber ball and plastic hose. I'll bet you find a leak at the 1st valve slide.

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jazztrumpetbill · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: Shilke B5

I have noticed the same thing on my Schilke B5. I did not realize it was related to these horns. I used to play a Shilke 14B but switched to a Warburton which are just better mouthpieces. I will check the intonation with both pieces to see if there is indeed a difference.

pushyred · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject:

I would vote for calling Phyllis Stork. As Ed said, short shank (such as Studio Master) mouthpieces are notorious for causing top line F and the G above to go even more sharp than normal. Phyllis will probably have the solution already solved and an answer just waiting for your question. She may even send you several things on trial. I do suggest you check the website and call during the requested time. Email will work fine once you establish contact and start the conversation.

I find it hard to believe your 1st valve slide is too short but anything is possible. Schilke will fix anything but you'll have to send them the horn to get a proper fit on a replacement.

There are lot's of questions I have like: Age of the horn? Is it new to you? How long on this mouthpiece? How far out is your tuning slide? Why such a large diameter mouthpiece with a shallowish cup? Does this result in using too much pressure, pinching the air at either the throat or the lips or both? Is this a new problem? When was the horn cleaned thoroughly and/or checked over by a professional repair person? (this can make a huge difference).

And last but not least - have you consulted a private teacher?

Most good teachers will be able to spot the "problem" within the first 10 minutes of hearing you play.

If you were my student (without hearing you) I would suggest clean the horn, start each practice session with deep breathing, soft long tones, focus on keeping the upper body relaxed, breath from the belly and keep the throat relaxed, turn on the turner and train your ear to put the notes in the right place. Try little of the Stamp lip bends. Center each note. If that didn't help in a couple of weeks I'd take a serious look at your equipment choices.

Hmm - guess its been awhile since I posted here. Sorry if that was too much info - Good Luck

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Joyfulnoise · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject:

I think "lipshurt" is on to a real possibility with a leak. How old is the horn? Any possible damage to the slide? If all the other 1st valve notes are in tune, then changing a slide length would be the wrong move as everything else with 1st valve would be flat.

Everyone is right, call Schilke....they will want the horn right, regardless of age.

I use Schilke mouthpieces on my horns with no issues. If not using a Schilke mouthpiece, then one that is consistent with a Schilke design and gap would seem to be the most compatible approach allowing the horn to perform its best. A B5 shouldn't have this problem.
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