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Flattergrub
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Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderators wrote:

We do understand the limitations of this. It's easy enough for the Moderators to tell from the IP information available to us whether an IP ban would have any effect.


So what are you guys gonna do about Paultune ?
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KansasTrumpet
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flattergrub wrote:
Moderators wrote:

We do understand the limitations of this. It's easy enough for the Moderators to tell from the IP information available to us whether an IP ban would have any effect.


So what are you guys gonna do about Paultunes ?

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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator


Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5865
Location: New Albany, Indiana

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flattergrub wrote:
Moderators wrote:

We do understand the limitations of this. It's easy enough for the Moderators to tell from the IP information available to us whether an IP ban would have any effect.


So what are you guys gonna do about Paultune ?


It has already been dealt with, I believe.
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veery715
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 4313
Location: Ithaca NY

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of us is perfect, but perhaps TH would be better for all if we:

avoided voicing assertions or assumptions about the mental condition of others,

didn't take anything personally,

try to be respectful of others, including their right to disagree,

retain a sense of humor,

re-read what we are about to post and consider if someone else we're to post it, how we would react,

not embrace the task of defending those who do not need it. I am guilty of this. Michael Del Quadro, Trent Austin, the Getzen brothers, and a host of others we all recognize as sincere and well meaning, not to mention knowledgeable and competent in their chosen pursuits, hardly need the rest of us to come to their defense.
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yourbrass
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Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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Location: Pacifica, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that many opinions may not sit well with people, and that's OK. Some posters delight in argument and irritating others. But that's not why CK should be banned, if he hasn't been already. Calling people names, impugning their business practices and ethics without a shred of evidence crosses the line.
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Flattergrub
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Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
Flattergrub wrote:
Moderators wrote:

We do understand the limitations of this. It's easy enough for the Moderators to tell from the IP information available to us whether an IP ban would have any effect.


So what are you guys gonna do about Paultune ?


It has already been dealt with, I believe.


You guys are on a roll. Keep up the good work. Now - about that TH executive lounge, Jacuzzi and wet bar.........
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Comeback
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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1143

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: Nice post. Reply with quote

Nice post, veery715. I appreciate it.
Jim
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JonathanM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flattergrub wrote:
PH wrote:
Flattergrub wrote:
Moderators wrote:

We do understand the limitations of this. It's easy enough for the Moderators to tell from the IP information available to us whether an IP ban would have any effect.


So what are you guys gonna do about Paultune ?


It has already been dealt with, I believe.


You guys are on a roll. Keep up the good work. Now - about that TH executive lounge, Jacuzzi and wet bar.........


+1!
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Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording, '52 Mendez
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oldblow
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Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 676
Location: Mitchell, Georgia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having made my living using tools for many years, at one point, having a shop in a store front in an Atlanta neighborhood, I feel that all of us owe a sentiment of gratitude to any tech who posts here, regardless of the level of their national reputations. Many good techs have all they can do in their neighborhoods, as I did with my restoration shop for antique southern furniture. The combined experiences of many technicians from different levels of expertise form a valuable resource for those of us who use the internet as a source of information, given that many of us live in isolated circumstances. I confidently hope that our forum overcomes the personality cults that have arisen lately, and returns to being a community of players helping players, with both musical and technical aspects of our craft.

Time, for any working technician or active player, those who support themselves from their efforts, is very valuable! Those of us who are non-professionals, not deriving most or all of our income from our craft. owe respect and courtesy to those professionals who post here. We owe the same to ourselves.

The only shop that I have visited is Josh Landress's. I was in the neighborhood back in September, and my wife gave me some time off while she went to Macy's, so I went to Josh's just to sniff the air. I told him the instant that I walked through the door that I brought no money and was not a customer that day, and for him to keep working. He broke into a big smile, introduced himself and the gang, and upon learning that I mostly play cornet, broke out some Bostons, showed me his vast inventory, and showed me a cornet that he was completing for a client. We discussed our opinions about the extent and types of restoration that are appropriate for functioning objects, furniture as well as instruments. We swapped war stories about clients. I repeated my protest that I realized his time was valuable, and that I was just getting acquainted with his operation. Unfortunately, I asked what platoon he was in for basic training, since he wears a globe and anchor on his shop apron. When I told him that I was in platoon 253 in 1965, we added another ten minutes to the departure ceremony. I plan to go back.

But I, too, see no need to make personal or snide remarks when responding to honest inquiries and discussions on this forum. If the moderators detect manipulation or disharmony in a post, they should remove it, or move it to a location away from musical interests.
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ohiotpt
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 990

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Similar adventure in Kevin Power's shop

For those of you in Michigan (or NorthWest Ohio), if you have any repair work a visit to Kevin Powers's shop in Monroe Michigan. If he has time to work on the project "while you wait" you not only get to watch a first class repair in action (okay, sometimes it's like watching sausage being made) but he can also discuss so much about brass (and woodwind instruments).

Heck, if you have an old horn, it's worth smashing it on the ground just for an excuse to bring it in and have a talk with Kevin.
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Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by.
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JonathanM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldblow wrote:
Having made my living using tools for many years, at one point, having a shop in a store front in an Atlanta neighborhood, I feel that all of us owe a sentiment of gratitude to any tech who posts here, regardless of the level of their national reputations. Many good techs have all they can do in their neighborhoods, as I did with my restoration shop for antique southern furniture. The combined experiences of many technicians from different levels of expertise form a valuable resource for those of us who use the internet as a source of information, given that many of us live in isolated circumstances. I confidently hope that our forum overcomes the personality cults that have arisen lately, and returns to being a community of players helping players, with both musical and technical aspects of our craft.

Time, for any working technician or active player, those who support themselves from their efforts, is very valuable! Those of us who are non-professionals, not deriving most or all of our income from our craft. owe respect and courtesy to those professionals who post here. We owe the same to ourselves.

The only shop that I have visited is Josh Landress's. I was in the neighborhood back in September, and my wife gave me some time off while she went to Macy's, so I went to Josh's just to sniff the air. I told him the instant that I walked through the door that I brought no money and was not a customer that day, and for him to keep working. He broke into a big smile, introduced himself and the gang, and upon learning that I mostly play cornet, broke out some Bostons, showed me his vast inventory, and showed me a cornet that he was completing for a client. We discussed our opinions about the extent and types of restoration that are appropriate for functioning objects, furniture as well as instruments. We swapped war stories about clients. I repeated my protest that I realized his time was valuable, and that I was just getting acquainted with his operation. Unfortunately, I asked what platoon he was in for basic training, since he wears a globe and anchor on his shop apron. When I told him that I was in platoon 253 in 1965, we added another ten minutes to the departure ceremony. I plan to go back.

But I, too, see no need to make personal or snide remarks when responding to honest inquiries and discussions on this forum. If the moderators detect manipulation or disharmony in a post, they should remove it, or move it to a location away from musical interests.


Very nicely said.
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Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording, '52 Mendez
Flugle: Strad 182
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Cornet: Olds Recording & Super
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ghelbig
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Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
For those of you who haven't been around long...

1. There is no "the moderator." The site owner is generally pretty hands off when it comes to issues of moderation.

2. TH is moderated by a fairly large team (probably 15-20) of members who donate their time. These folks live all over the world and represent diverse religious & political viewpoints as well as widely divergent opinions on all things relating to music & trumpet.

3. The site moderators and the people who moderate the individual dedicated forums are not the same group of people. The site moderators are anonymous.


Understood, and that may be part of the problem.

Internet forums have a couple of interesting attributes. As the membership grows it becomes more fragile.

In any group there are disrupters; that's just a reality.

The number of disrupters it takes to contaminate a forum is proportional the the diversity of the membership.

The number of disrupters that exist are proportional to the size of the membership.

As a group grows, initially the diversity increases, but after a certain size the diversity actually starts to decrease. And in a topic-specific forum, the shrinkage of diversity happens pretty quickly (A scientific way of saying that trumpet players are more similar than different).

Without active moderation, there will be a size at which any forum will break.

I have sent a number of messages (PM's and emails) through the "moderator channels" - the response has been in the single-digit percentage range. In a couple of cases, a response really was needed, and none arrived. (Honestly, I feel I would have better luck meeting the Tooth Fairy)

I do know what it takes to moderate forums of this size. I feel that there really isn't a valid reason why these forums aren't moderated actively, and I am seeing a large loss in value because they were not moderated.

Gary.
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gbdeamer
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Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2307

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
Flattergrub wrote:
Moderators wrote:

We do understand the limitations of this. It's easy enough for the Moderators to tell from the IP information available to us whether an IP ban would have any effect.


So what are you guys gonna do about Paultune ?


It has already been dealt with, I believe.


Glad they reacted quickly to that one.

To me it seemed like an existing TH member who was upset about kirk being kicked was trying to make a point so he created the new username and went on a rampage.

Hope his original username didn't get caught in the ban.
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12705
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gbdeamer wrote:
PH wrote:
Flattergrub wrote:
Moderators wrote:

We do understand the limitations of this. It's easy enough for the Moderators to tell from the IP information available to us whether an IP ban would have any effect.


So what are you guys gonna do about Paultune ?


It has already been dealt with, I believe.


Glad they reacted quickly to that one.

To me it seemed like an existing TH member who was upset about kirk being kicked was trying to make a point so he created the new username and went on a rampage.

Hope his original username didn't get caught in the ban.

The posts started prior to the major cap'n bashing thread. And someone recently did something very similar to this to kansastrumpet. New user, over the top statements, etc.

But even if you are correct having multiple user names is against policy and my guess is it would probably end up with both banned.
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 3377

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the Mods:

With all respect (and I do mean that), I simply don't understand why with "Paultune" it takes you less than two days to draw conclusions and act, but with "Kirk" you needed almost 5 years.
FWIW, I'm one of those members who'd largely stopped posting because of this.

MvW.
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Christian K. Peters
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
Posts: 1542
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Lost another member Reply with quote

Hello all,
Nice last point, that a member may have taken on another username to voice his opinions...Maybe one way to curb all this stuff up is to actually register with real names, emails, and addresses. If we all knew who we really were, we all might be a little more cautious about what was said, knowing that people could/would find us and get the lynching we deserved
I know when I am posting, I usually look up the profile of the person to get a better read on where they are coming from. Check mine. If everybody had a a mandatory registry, it might make us much closer as a group. At least friendlier
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12705
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christian,

I don't disagree with your point, but having had my identity stolen and spent the time cleaning up the mess, I personally prefer to leave as few clues around as possible.
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A.N.A.Mendez
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5234
Location: ca.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what happened to poltroon?



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JonathanM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
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Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A.N.A.Mendez wrote:
what happened to poltroon?




I think the word is that he's been dealt with.
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Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording, '52 Mendez
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super
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Flattergrub
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Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonathanM wrote:
A.N.A.Mendez wrote:
what happened to poltroon?




I think the word is that he's been dealt with.


I'm thinking "dealt with" is the forum equivalent of "he sleeps with the fishes"
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