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[MrClean]

OK, I’ve given “Jazz” and “Monette” enough unimpeded (by me, at least) opportunity to give their perspective on the deal. I will weigh in with mine and bow out.

For those of you who missed the original “millionaire” thread, I will attempt to recap, at least from my recollection. During the course of the discussion, Jazz offered an estimated figure of what he thought principal players in major orchestras (as well as soloists, studio players, etc.) earned. Monette countered with “I think you nailed it”. By my definition of “major” orchestra, the figure was way low. No big deal – that’s the beauty of this forum. There is a wealth of information here to be had. Jazz also offered that, while the money was really bad, many principal players in major orchestras would gladly play for free just for the shear fun of playing such great music.

Wilmer Wise, a highly respected studio player/freelancer from NY, weighed in that he thought the figure was low, too. It was by my account an unemotional, matter-of-fact attempt to correct what at least Wilmer and I thought to be erroneous figures. In the time it took me to compose and post my own response, Wilmer basically got bitch-slapped (there I go cursing again) for his efforts. People who disputed Jazz and Monette were characterized as people (players) who made $ while saying they made $$$, people who lived their lives in a fantasy world, and “dim bulbs”.

Now, I normally would not have even responded to the bit about “playing for free”. However, I was really miffed that these two new-comers were blowing in here and dismissing anyone who didn’t buy into their figures, including at least two people who make a living solely by playing the trumpet, a couple of guys who might actually have some credentials. My response was terse – I basically said that the statement was “crap”, which was admittedly harsh. I still believe the statement to be utterly baseless. Now, there is a HUGE difference between characterizing a statement that many principal trumpeters of major orchestras would gladly play for free as “crap” and me saying that people should never play for free (which never came out of my mouth, dude). Tom (Jazz), I can see you rolling your eyes now, so save your fingers…

Well, you would have thought I’d call their mothers %)(*#?#@$s. We went back and forth, with me defending my position on the subject of working for free, and to what constitutes a “major” symphony. My position on this, by the way, has not wavered one iota (orchestras with budgets in excess of $15,000,000/year, of which there are about 20 in the US). I did, however, allow for the fact that there may be several working definitions of what others may consider as “major”, which explained our $$$ discrepencies and gave everyone an "out". I offered an olive branch (the one post I left standing), which was accepted. It was my hope and understanding that the matter was behind us.

I then ran across a post by Jazz in Derek’s “Trumpet Sections of Major Orchestras”. Tom wanted to know the number of orchestras that Derek was including under the umbrella of "major orchestras". It looked to me that he was, in effect, reloading for round two. Could I have been paranoid? You bet. Contrary to what Tom has said, I did not tell him to “shut up”, or anything to that effect. I said “I think I see where you’re going with this. Why don’t you just let it lie?” Had the roles been reversed, I might have said “relax, MrClean – you’re paranoid. This has got nothing to do with you”. That is not what happened. The speed and vitriol with which the response was delivered reinforced my initial response. Monette chimed in with some very provocative statements about what Derek is doing, and what I and my colleagues do for a living. This follows a pattern I have seen in his previous posts, and I said something to the effect of “troll alert”. In other words, I rammed a stick into the hornet’s nest.

I then watched as bits and pieces of earlier posts of mine were cobbled together and offered as “direct quotes”, whether or not they were in the same sentence, post or thread. My comments have been blown WAY out of proportion or misrepresented, and any attempt to defend myself has been met with comments that, ‘gee, don’t you know satire when you see it’ and ‘some people take themselves way too seriously,’ etc., etc. I have also been characterized as vulgar, insulting, and a liar among other things, but I digress…

Well, I’ve had enough. I don’t have the time or the energy to defend myself against guerilla tactics. It is a huge distraction at a time in my life that I cannot afford it. Monette said that I retracted my posts out of embarrassment, and that is partially true. After looking back on these posts, it occurred to me that the participants looked like guys with WAY too much time on their hands. We are ALL losing credibility quickly, guys. The big difference is, people have a name and a face to go with my moniker, so I’ve got a lot more to lose than you. This exchange left such a bitter taste in my mouth that I wanted to erase any reminder that I had been here (which has proven to be much harder than I anticipated )

All of us - Jazz, Monette, and I - have looked like complete idiots here. I’m done. There is nothing for me to gain by continuing to try to fight you two. It has also forced me to reassess the use of my time, and at present it would be best served away from the TH.

Thanks to all who have been friends or at least respectful “foes” over the last year and a half. Good luck.

Jim

[X3L]

Jim,

I am truly sorry that you feel strongly enough to hang it up. Though I only gig in a weekend rock band (and occasionally in church on Sunday), you have always treated me as a trumpet playing peer. For that, I will always be in your debt! So long, and shoot me an email from time to time to let me know how you're doing...

John MacGregor
Waukesha, WI

P.S. Any chance that I can have your avatar, now that you won't be using it?

[L.Bar-EL]

Jim,

IMO, it’s best to just take a break for awhile and keep the door open for coming back. TH is a good place to share knowledge and experiences of which you’ve got a lot of. To keep it current and alive you’ll need to keep it busy and this forum will help you do that otherwise you’ll feel yourself getting stale in your music and in your life in general.

If there are still others who are against you here in TH, why open their mouths against you if you decide to come back in the future? Therefore, don’t leave just take a vacation.

If you really want a different and exciting experience during your time off line, try blowing a Shofar (Ram’s horn) the most naturally made horn and see what kind of sound you get.

Liad Bar-EL

[Derek Reaban]

Jim,

I want to say thank you for all of the marvelous assistance that you have provided me with my project here on the Trumpet Herald! I have certainly enjoyed all of the discussions that we have had, especially the topic about rotary trumpets that led us to finding out they were called “Ka-Chings” and “Side Winders” by those of you playing them professionally for repertoire specific literature. That discussion really made my day!

Looking back on my notes from the ITG Conference in Denver, Byron Stripling discussed the topic of Time Management during his clinic. He said that we should all ask ourselves, “What is the most valuable use of my time?” Honestly, I know that when I answer this question for myself, Trumpet Herald would certainly get MUCH LESS time, and I’m moving in that direction myself. I’m enjoying my project here and will probably limit my time to that folder only.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to a trip to LA sometime this season to hear your orchestra live and in person at that marvelous new hall. I’m also very excited that my friend John will be joining you in the brass section this year. That gives me a good excuse to visit. Maybe if it works out I can stop by to say hello.


Take care and best of luck to you!
_________________
Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest

[trumpetmike]

Jim
Many thanks for your many posts. Yours was one of those names that meant that the post was worth reading.
You have treated us all as equals and I, for one, respect you for that.
I hope that this is just a temporary vacation from TH, if so, I look forwrd to hearing from you in the future.

Maybe Derek is right - we should all take a break from TH now and then?

[riffdawg2000]

Jim -

I am no one special, just a typical comeback player with a lot of ground to make up for. I personally have enjoyed your insights and comments.

You have my best wishes, and hope that you will return, at least in a limited fashion, in the near future.

Regards,
Joel
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Joel Thomas

[Pat]

I've always found Jim Wilt's contributions to the TH to be among the most informative both on the subjects of trumpet playing and the music business. They were also articulate, helpful and written without a hint of arrogance even though he has reached a level of playing that most of us can only dream of. I also think his frequent presence gave this forum credibility and let other players well-known in the trumpet world know that their informed contributions would be welcome; Manny Laureano, David Hickman, Craig Morris, Wilmer Wise, Andrew McCandless, to name a few.

For those of you who still don't know, Jim Wilt is the Associate Principal Trumpet of the LA Philharmonic and also served as Associate Principal for many years with the Houston Symphony. Craig Morris studied with Jim, and Craig credits Jim with teaching him to truly focus on his playing, what it takes to play in an orchestra and how to prepare for auditions. (See the March 2002 ITG Journal) Wouldn't you want to hear from someone whose student won the principal trumpet position with the Chicago Symphony?

I believe his version of what happened on the Millionaires thread to be fair and accurate. I will miss his contributions

[romey1]

Mr. Clean,

Thanks for "keeping it real." Hope to see you in a few weeks.

romey

[matzentrpt]

I would like to add my thanks for all of your input on this forum Jim ...
Your advice is very valuable to us here, and we would welcome you back at anytime, if you ever decided to do so!

I'll miss the Zeta Jones avatar as well..... -Max-
_________________
Max Matzen, DMA
Associate Professor of Trumpet
Utah State University

[_Don Herman]

Yeah, that's right -- forget Jim, bring back Zeta!

Seriously, Jim, your posts represent a huge contribution to TH from a top pro, with all the insight and wisdim that brings. And, the occasional dose of reality for those of us in the "wannabe" slots.

Entering a room full of people, chances are there will be a few you don't get along with, and vice versa. We have over 5000 registered members, and I think the vast majority respect each other no matter the topic. Some shy away from certain topics, and some you just have to ignore. Sometimes you have to walk out and back in; I hope that's what you'll do here.

All the best - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[Vin DiBona]

We have lost some great players with extraordinary experiences to a grouping of goofs. I don't post much, but do read the forums everyday. It might do some of the more frequent posters better if they would get in a practice room instead of spouting their unexperienced opinions as cold fact.
You'd be amazed at some of the very special players who look at this site but will not post because of exactly what just occurred to their friends and colleages. It is also obvious to me that the players with the highest levels of ability are also the most kind and considerate.
I am saddened and angry.
Rich Tomasek a.k.a. Vin Di Bona

[trumpetmike]

[Skip]

Jim,

Thanks for your time, expertise, & professionalism.

With your time away, enjoy the Pass/Genesis. Maybe I'll catch some new posts at other venues.

All the best.

Skip

[Vin DiBona]

Not you, trumpetmike, I enjoy your posts and you always have something constructive to say or add. I was hoping it would not be taken the wrong way by long time posters such as yourself. Besides, some of the best players come out of England! Horns, too! Eclipse, anyone? (I really want to try one of those horns). And of course, the Pythons.
The ones that get to me are the ones who jump in discussions where a specific question has been asked and they have no experience with the question in hand but still answer in some highly speculative manner.
These folks remind me of the commercials in the US for the hotel chain (Holiday Inn?) where someone is somehow in a very specialized field who doesn't belong there and spouts off the technical answers because they were smart enough to save money by staying at the particular hotel chain. Those commercials are meant to be humorous and they are. The situation here is not funny when poor information is given as fact or an opinion is given without a base of experience. Worst of all is when top pros are taken to task by rank amateurs.
That's enough out of me.

[ejaime23]

It's a shame to see you leave Mr. Wilt, you've put some of the best information on here that I've ever read, and have helped not only become a better trumpet player, but a better musician. As a Houston native, I was fortunate enough to listen to your playing since my begginer band year, ever since then I've listened to every HSO classical season concert, and grew up listening the sounds of yourself, DeWitt, Walp, and Schaffer, who sold me my horn. Needless to say that you were quite a bit of influence in my trumpet playing career. I am now a student of Randy Adams, and I'll speak to him of your posts sometimes, and he always has something great to say about your response and of your playing. I'm hoping to see that your departure is only temporary and if you're ever back in Houston, there's a beer waiting for you on me!!

[cookiemonster]

[scarface]

[cookiemonster]

Oh, I'm sorry, 795 posts later.I was talking about the guy I quoted, not me.
_________________
"If it doesn't fit, you must acquit!"-Johnny Cochran

[riffdawg2000]

cookiemonster -

Unlike YOUR posts, "cookie", Derek's are always informative! So ... 795...or whatever, are worth the read ... to those of us that care ...

Sounds to me that you are jealous that YOUcannot produce the same quality in the quantity of posts as others here ... Hmmmmm

Go crawl back under your bridge ....

JOEL THOMAS
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Joel Thomas

[cookiemonster]