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Man Of Constant Sorrow
Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023
Posts: 490
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 Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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I can attest that one THE BIGGEST players in the horn-world is a "lurker" here (as I used to be for many years).
Apparently, on a hunch, something relative to my user-name tipped him off as to my identity. (Our paths had crossed years ago).
He called me. More than once.
I was astounded that he got my phone-number, despite my vociferous efforts to remain anonymous. (must have friends in the CIA &/or FBI)
The conversations were very horn-related.
I shall not reveal more.
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Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz |
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yourbrass
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3656
Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting question and discussion.
I think the anonymous nature of the internet makes attacks and/or piffle too easy and many people, as already noted, don’t want to put up w/it. Pros, amateurs, just people, who needs it?
But information does appear on a regular basis, so if one is interested in the subject TH can be valuable.
I keep my observations to things I know something about as much as possible. Not saying I’m any kind of authority, but TH has brought some interesting communications with others to me that wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
Playing the trumpet and repairing brass instruments are two subjects I love and know something about so I’ll keep posting and irritating others. (HA)
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| yourbrass wrote: | Very interesting question and discussion.
Playing the trumpet and repairing brass instruments are two subjects I love and know something about so I’ll keep posting and irritating others. (HA) |
Sure beats hitting a golf ball, while wearing cargo shorts  .
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Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz |
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Al Innella
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 756
Location: Levittown NY
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:12 am Post subject: |
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There are too many people who answer every question about embouchure. How to increase range, power ,endurance , slot notes above double C, etc.. When asked how it works for them, they admit it doesn't . They can't do what they are telling everyone else to do. When questioned, they stand by their "expert" advice. I wonder if they really think they are helping others or just feeding their ego. You ask about pros but the site is full of "experts". They answer every embouchure question without knowing how embouchures actually function. Just because someone has more posts than everyone else doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.
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Last edited by Al Innella on Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3344
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Al Innella wrote: | | There are too many people who answer every question about ... |
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I understand and agree about there sometimes being 'too many' differing views and explanations -- but what does that have to do with why recognized high-level pro players don't chime in with their comments?
And more importantly, is there a way to encourage those pros who can clearly explain (and respond to questions about) their comments?
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9097
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | Al Innella wrote: | | There are too many people who answer every question about ... |
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I understand and agree about there sometimes being 'too many' differing views and explanations -- but what does that have to do with why recognized high-level pro players don't chime in with their comments?
And more importantly, is there a way to encourage those pros who can clearly explain (and respond to questions about) their comments? |
And I would question the assumption that there is a relation between the number of post-counts and the validity of that poster's experience.
If anyone here knows how someone else spends their time, I would like to hear it. We all have various time-spending activities/responsibilities, or lack thereof. It's very presumptuous to judge someone else's use of their time, especially if you don't know what you're talking about in the first place.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
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trumpjosh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 741
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of pro players used to post here but got run off by trolls. It's like asking why NFL quarterbacks don't participate in threads patrolled by Pop Warner/JV players correcting them on the proper way to throw a spiral. Why bother participating in that?
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www.milanomusic.com |
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Al Innella
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 756
Location: Levittown NY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| trumpjosh wrote: | | A lot of pro players used to post here but got run off by trolls. It's like asking why NFL quarterbacks don't participate in threads patrolled by Pop Warner/JV players correcting them on the proper way to throw a spiral. Why bother participating in that? |
+1!. Also I'm not talking about differing views, I'm talking about people guessing what they think might work, when they admit it doesn't work for themselves. The problem is they still insist their advice is valid. It it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't.
If you can't play above a high C ,how can you tell others how to play high G above high C or double high C, but they tell you anyway and then dominate this site. We should be trying help others, not be in a competition to see who can see themselves on the internet the most.
Last edited by Al Innella on Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dschwab
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 520
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| dschwab wrote: | The answer to most questions is posted is:
Listen to as much music as you can.
Practice consistently and for many long hours.
I rarely post, because people would rather hear about some quick fix or new miracle horn/mouthpiece than, "go practice." |
I think a lot of people also stopped posting because we could say the same thing over and over and over and the same questions would still pop up. To the two answers above, I'd also add "find a teacher," because you can't really learn how to play by reading about it on a forum.
It would be like learning about music by reading about it.
And that's why pros don't post here that much. |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9097
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| dschwab wrote: | | I think a lot of people also stopped posting because we could say the same thing over and over and over. . . . |
A case in point . . 
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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dschwab
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 520
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:18 am Post subject: |
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I could preface what I wrote with the thought that most times pros post, they are offering serious advice to what we assume are people who seriously want to get better, which is a very difficult thing to do. It requires long hours of very focused, diligent, detail oriented practice, and many times it isn't fun.
Most people who post here are hobbyists, (which is fine!) and understandably just aren't going to put in that amount of work.
I find it frustrating when serious advice given by a serious player is lost in the noise of all the other posts, some contradictory to the advice of an expert. And so, not much posting. |
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RandyTX
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 5302
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:19 am Post subject: |
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This happens everywhere, not just on TH.. As an example, from the tech arena, particularly software development... years ago, there something called Usenet, which eventually got absorbed (badly) by Google, and renamed Google Groups, and it became a cesspool, and most of the serious people ran away from it.
be that as it may, there were many hundreds of narrow, topic-specifc groups, and one of them dealt in particular with the C programming language. Somewhere along the way, there was a debate about a particular aspect of the language itself, and a poster made a long, very coherent, an imminitely correct post, and some wannabe fired at his post with a quick 'peanut gallery' sort of insult, and "what do you know about it, anyway, dude?" comment.
The irony was not much different than if Bud Herseth posted here about how to perform Mahler 5 well, and somebody with 6 weeks of experience argued with him and called him an idiot.
Why do I say that? Because Dennis Ritchie, the man who co-designed the original C programming language, was the esteemed author of the post that got flamed by some 'newbie' that had no idea who he was, even after it was pointed out to him.
A bit like walking up to Beethoven once upon a time, in old world Europe, as a shoe salesman, and telling him that you found his lack of musical talent problematic in his 5th symphony.
Short version: The internet is filled with trolls, and you either put up with them, or avoid it entirely.
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"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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Didymus
Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2017
Posts: 306
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:06 am Post subject: The Internet is like democracy in action. |
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| RandyTX wrote: | This happens everywhere, not just on TH.. As an example, from the tech arena, particularly software development... years ago, there something called Usenet, which eventually got absorbed (badly) by Google, and renamed Google Groups, and it became a cesspool, and most of the serious people ran away from it.
be that as it may, there were many hundreds of narrow, topic-specifc groups, and one of them dealt in particular with the C programming language. Somewhere along the way, there was a debate about a particular aspect of the language itself, and a poster made a long, very coherent, an imminitely correct post, and some wannabe fired at his post with a quick 'peanut gallery' sort of insult, and "what do you know about it, anyway, dude?" comment.
The irony was not much different than if Bud Herseth posted here about how to perform Mahler 5 well, and somebody with 6 weeks of experience argued with him and called him an idiot.
Why do I say that? Because Dennis Ritchie, the man who co-designed the original C programming language, was the esteemed author of the post that got flamed by some 'newbie' that had no idea who he was, even after it was pointed out to him.
A bit like walking up to Beethoven once upon a time, in old world Europe, as a shoe salesman, and telling him that you found his lack of musical talent problematic in his 5th symphony.
Short version: The internet is filled with trolls, and you either put up with them, or avoid it entirely. |
For better or for (mostly) worse, the opening of the Internet to commercial traffic democratized access to specialized or specific subjects or fields of knowledge. By democratize I mean, that now any common person, like me, can access forums or lines of communication which previously were available (mostly) to experts or people with real, "skin in the game." Kind of like political democracy opens a level of decision-making up to the participation of the common person..... and any bad actors in their number. Even the Constitution of the United States has checks against allowing the riff-raff and bad actors from exerting a tyranny of the masses.
I'm all for seeing this forum moderated in a way to protect vetted professionals, educators, and even established vendors from silly attacks by anonymous or semi-anonymous ego-stokers.
I was lurking on this forum for a long time before I finally registered and started posting. I thought it was awesome to be able to read posts by pros like Wilbur Ware or Manny Laureano, or educators like David Hickman, or vendors like James Becker on a regular basis. Wow. One time I was able to exchange a series of messages with one of the Getzen brothers! Plus, most of the "mere amateurs" had gracious attitudes towards each other even when they disagreed. I wish we could go back to that.
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cbtj51
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015
Posts: 735
Location: SE US
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 5:50 am Post subject: Re: The Internet is like democracy in action. |
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| Didymus wrote: |
I was lurking on this forum for a long time before I finally registered and started posting. I thought it was awesome to be able to read posts by pros like Wilbur Ware or Manny Laureano, or educators like David Hickman, or vendors like James Becker on a regular basis. Wow. One time I was able to exchange a series of messages with one of the Getzen brothers! Plus, most of the "mere amateurs" had gracious attitudes towards each other even when they disagreed. I wish we could go back to that. |
Ahhh! The "good ol' days" often seem to have been much better than the disappointments of today. Unfortunately, there will always be naysayers lurking to hurl flaming arrows at even the most expert of experts. Considering the source is still wise advice from the past!
Life IS truly Short! Joy CAN still be found, but often requiring more diligent searching than before.
Mike
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'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3280
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm all for seeing this forum moderated in a way to protect vetted professionals, educators, and even established vendors from silly attacks by anonymous or semi-anonymous ego-stokers. |
Ah, so you are for censoring discussion here? Thats so "constitutional", right? And who are you, or the moderators to judge who is "vetted" or not?
And obviously you think that civil disagreement is a "silly attack". It's a good thing you aren't a moderator.
TH moderators do an excellent job of allowing opinion that is not just from inside the echo-chamber. |
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mafields627
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3779
Location: AL
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:27 am Post subject: Re: The Internet is like democracy in action. |
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| Didymus wrote: |
I'm all for seeing this forum moderated in a way to protect vetted professionals, educators, and even established vendors from silly attacks by anonymous or semi-anonymous ego-stokers.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly. I understand the limitations of our mods, but I wish things were a little bit tighter. I post on a particular college football message board that is heavily moderated and, honestly, it's a pleasure. Opposing fans are allowed to post as long as their posts contribute and aren't argumentative flame bait. No profanity. Insiders still post on there. No personal attacks with other posters. You can disagree with players/coaches in a professional manner, but no attacking them. I wish we had that atmosphere here.
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No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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Didymus
Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2017
Posts: 306
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:50 am Post subject: Re: The Internet is like democracy in action. |
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| mafields627 wrote: | | Didymus wrote: |
I'm all for seeing this forum moderated in a way to protect vetted professionals, educators, and even established vendors from silly attacks by anonymous or semi-anonymous ego-stokers.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly. I understand the limitations of our mods, but I wish things were a little bit tighter. I post on a particular college football message board that is heavily moderated and, honestly, it's a pleasure. Opposing fans are allowed to post as long as their posts contribute and aren't argumentative flame bait. No profanity. Insiders still post on there. No personal attacks with other posters. You can disagree with players/coaches in a professional manner, but no attacking them. I wish we had that atmosphere here. |
Do you pay a subscription for access to that message board? Are requests for access carefully considered or vetted by the owners of that board? Just curious.
Often, folks have a misconception of freedom of speech. They don't understand that it doesn't necessarily apply to activities on private property. The owners of the property can decide what they want said on their property. The TH doesn't charge us money to post here, but at the end of the day we're all participating at the pleasure of whoever owns the board. We're all guests. The owners of this board generally accept all comers, and the board is funded by other means. The owners can change the rules or guidelines for participation when or how they want, and bounce whoever they want off the board entirely, or simply just shut down what they don't want discussed on their board.
Sometimes people lose sight of that on forums that are more-or-less "open" like this one. And it takes only a very small percentage of the participants to make things unpleasant for others who intend to remain well-behaved guests. Being here isn't a right, it's a privilege. I'm happy I'm given that privilege.
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Enjoy the journey. |
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mafields627
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3779
Location: AL
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: The Internet is like democracy in action. |
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| Didymus wrote: |
Do you pay a subscription for access to that message board? Are requests for access carefully considered or vetted by the owners of that board? Just curious.
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No, it's open and free. There's not even a paid "insider" tier. It's supported through ads and a store selling licensed collegiate merchandise.
This is the first entry on the site FAQ:
| Quote: | This is not a democracy...
At best, and most importantly, it is a benevolent dictatorship governed by the administration of the site. This manner of management was overwhelmingly preferred by the early adopters, and thus will be instituted as policy. We have attempted below to outline specific guidelines that we will use in the management of this board. We reserve the right, however, to administer this board as best we see fit.
Our policies strictly govern the behavior of the users but are not strict "step-by-step" rules that our moderators and administrators MUST adhere to (i.e the 3strikes policy below). They do, however, give us guidance as to how to handle issues as they arise. |
You're right on with your post, btw. The owner is a pro player and the mods are pro players, teachers, or successful and busy people in other walks of life. They give their time and finances for us to play in their sandbox. We should all be good guests.
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--Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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LaTrompeta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 868
Location: West Side, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe pros don't have the time or inclination to be treated poorly. I've seen it and sadly admit that I've been less than courteous at times.
But, at the end of the day, nobody works for free.
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ramado24@clarkston.k12.mi
Regular Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2023
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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If you're good at something, never do it for free. TH kinda takes advantage of their knowledge with no real reward.
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