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Triggers vs. Saddle/Ring


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Rapier232
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd take triggers anytime. Wish my trumpets had them.
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Bill Blackwell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1530 has a 1st valve trigger and a 3rd valve ring. The wrap is tight, which makes the trigger invaluable. The triggers don't take long to get used to.
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roynj
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are triggers and then there are triggers. I found the Yamaha xeno cornet to have wonderfully done triggers. Somehow they were designed to be easier to use, and just feel great (in comparison to the overly stiff spring triggers on some other well known cornets). I think Yamaha got the geometry figured out and also they use a bit lighter sping tension. I can't stand the triggers on the Besson Sov.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roynj wrote:
There are triggers and then there are triggers. I found the Yamaha xeno cornet to have wonderfully done triggers. Somehow they were designed to be easier to use, and just feel great (in comparison to the overly stiff spring triggers on some other well known cornets). I think Yamaha got the geometry figured out and also they use a bit lighter sping tension. I can't stand the triggers on the Besson Sov.


Same here. The triggers on my York are great. Especially the tuning slide trigger which I wish all horns had. The trigger on the Bach cornet is too small and too stiff. I didn't feel it was very useful.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roynj wrote:
There are triggers and then there are triggers. I found the Yamaha xeno cornet to have wonderfully done triggers. Somehow they were designed to be easier to use, and just feel great (in comparison to the overly stiff spring triggers on some other well known cornets). I think Yamaha got the geometry figured out and also they use a bit lighter sping tension. I can't stand the triggers on the Besson Sov.


Absolutely.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roynj wrote:
There are triggers and then there are triggers. I found the Yamaha xeno cornet to have wonderfully done triggers. Somehow they were designed to be easier to use, and just feel great (in comparison to the overly stiff spring triggers on some other well known cornets). I think Yamaha got the geometry figured out and also they use a bit lighter sping tension. I can't stand the triggers on the Besson Sov.

Richard III wrote:
Same here. The triggers on my York are great. Especially the tuning slide trigger which I wish all horns had. The trigger on the Bach cornet is too small and too stiff. I didn't feel it was very useful.

I've got the Bach. I used to play on the same model Bach 184L that was owned by the group but had a saddle instead of the trigger. Great horn.

Some time ago, I got my own 184L. It seems to play fine, but it's got the trigger instead. I've always hated triggers, but I figured - why not give it a try? Well, I've been practicing it a fair amount recently, and the more I do, the more I hate the Bach trigger. As Richard said, it's small, it's very stiff, AND it's positioned badly for me.

Are you supposed to use your left thumb for these first slide triggers? If so, the Bach one is in a terrible position. It fits Ok for the right thumb, but I'm not trained to use that thumb for tuning - besides it destroys my hand position. It's way too far to the starboard (right) side of the cornet. For my small hand, it's a reach to get to it with the left thumb. Even worse, it's angled away from the left side. I have some arthritis - it's never been much of an issue for me with trumpet for years, but I this stiff and poor trigger is putting some strain on things.

Also, the linkage from the slide to the trigger has already broken twice on this horn. It when I took it in for an initial cleaning after purchasing it. After the store ordered a replacement part after a few months (during which I was considering having a saddle installed instead) that one broke after being used about a dozen times while I was still at the repair shop and talking to the tech. He ended up silver soldering it back together - hopefully making it stronger. It's holding up so far - but, so far this trigger has nothing to recommend it to me. After my gigs in a few weeks, I'm pretty sure I'll have it removed and replaced with something a saddle I can actually use.

I've also got a trigger on a Getzen Capri that seems better. Also, I picked up an old Besson 10-10 trumpet with the dual triggers I'll give a very fair chance to when I get around to rehabilitating it. They seemed decent when I last held it. The third slide ring trigger was interesting.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hand size plays a part in trigger preference. I have large hands, and prefer the Bach first-slide trigger because I like to wrap my left thumb around the first valve casing and only then encounter the trigger. The Benge first-valve trigger (on the Mendez and Opera) put the paddle in an even better location for me, but the pivot screw digs into the base of my thumb. I don't much like the first-slide trigger on my Selmer K-Modified trumpet because it's mounted right on the mouthpiece side of the first valve casing, preventing me from putting my thumb where I like it.
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brianj
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I'm not really bothered either way between triggers or rings. My Bb, C and Eb/D all have rings, my short model cornet has triggers and the long model has rings and all seem to do the job fine.

The strangest one has been my picc. It has a 3rd valve ring, but on the 1st valve I had a saddle that was mostly dependable but not 100%. So I made up a 1st valve trigger for it and it is totally reliable. It's such a short slide that the trigger pushes the slide out and pulls it back in a straight line whereas the thumb saddle applied the pressure differently and caused it to stick sometimes.

all the best

brian jones
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Greenleaf
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChopsGone wrote:

See if you Olds types recognize anything:


(In my best Monty Python voice) What? The hand-hammered bell?
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A.N.A.Mendez
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but the mounting and angles give me shivers!
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roynj
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bottom line is that triggers can be hard to get "right". Yamaha Xeno, great. Bach trigger, bad. Besson Sov., bad. Getzen 3850, good but maybe not great. Yet, almost everyone can put a hook/ring combo on a cornet and it will work pretty good, and some say better.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roy,

That summed it up quite nicely.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I play a Bach 184 and the trigger is easy to use with my left thumb and has never broken (the cornet is almost 20 years old). I've never thought of it, but after reading this thread, maybe the return spring is a bit stiff. I may look into having a softer one put on.
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Arpeggio
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to see the discussion going both ways.

I have always preferred saddles and rings over triggers simply because they better fit my hands and they're mechanically simpler. That said, horns with triggers of various sorts can be a lot of fun -- various flugels (original or added on), various Olds horns, Silver Flair trumpets, some Benge trumpets, and so on.

One interesting issue is that triggers add more mass to the horn than slides and rings do, and some designers feel this can help solidify the horn's tone -- rather like harmonic balancers, heavy caps and so forth.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
Well, I play a Bach 184 and the trigger is easy to use with my left thumb and has never broken (the cornet is almost 20 years old). I've never thought of it, but after reading this thread, maybe the return spring is a bit stiff. I may look into having a softer one put on.


Hi

I totally agree.

I have probably the smallest hands and shortest thumbs of anyone posting on here, around the size of a ten year old girl, and I have absolutely no problem with the Bach trigger, which I also operate with my left thumb.

I really think it is simply a case of what you get used to, as this has been by main instrument for seventeen years. I have never had any issues with the trigger breaking either.

All the best

Lou
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