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Rapier232 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 1323 Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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I'd take triggers anytime. Wish my trumpets had them. _________________ "Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".
Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle |
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Bill Blackwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2008 Posts: 1020 Location: Southern CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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My 1530 has a 1st valve trigger and a 3rd valve ring. The wrap is tight, which makes the trigger invaluable. The triggers don't take long to get used to. _________________ Bill Blackwell
Founder - Sons of Thunder Big Band Machine
Wild Thing Bb - Copper
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper
Wild Thing Short-Model Cornet - Copper
The future ain't what it used to be. ...
- Yogi Berra |
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roynj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:13 am Post subject: |
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There are triggers and then there are triggers. I found the Yamaha xeno cornet to have wonderfully done triggers. Somehow they were designed to be easier to use, and just feel great (in comparison to the overly stiff spring triggers on some other well known cornets). I think Yamaha got the geometry figured out and also they use a bit lighter sping tension. I can't stand the triggers on the Besson Sov. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:46 am Post subject: |
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roynj wrote: | There are triggers and then there are triggers. I found the Yamaha xeno cornet to have wonderfully done triggers. Somehow they were designed to be easier to use, and just feel great (in comparison to the overly stiff spring triggers on some other well known cornets). I think Yamaha got the geometry figured out and also they use a bit lighter sping tension. I can't stand the triggers on the Besson Sov. |
Same here. The triggers on my York are great. Especially the tuning slide trigger which I wish all horns had. The trigger on the Bach cornet is too small and too stiff. I didn't feel it was very useful. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6192
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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roynj wrote: | There are triggers and then there are triggers. I found the Yamaha xeno cornet to have wonderfully done triggers. Somehow they were designed to be easier to use, and just feel great (in comparison to the overly stiff spring triggers on some other well known cornets). I think Yamaha got the geometry figured out and also they use a bit lighter sping tension. I can't stand the triggers on the Besson Sov. |
Absolutely. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8336 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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roynj wrote: | There are triggers and then there are triggers. I found the Yamaha xeno cornet to have wonderfully done triggers. Somehow they were designed to be easier to use, and just feel great (in comparison to the overly stiff spring triggers on some other well known cornets). I think Yamaha got the geometry figured out and also they use a bit lighter sping tension. I can't stand the triggers on the Besson Sov. |
Richard III wrote: | Same here. The triggers on my York are great. Especially the tuning slide trigger which I wish all horns had. The trigger on the Bach cornet is too small and too stiff. I didn't feel it was very useful. |
I've got the Bach. I used to play on the same model Bach 184L that was owned by the group but had a saddle instead of the trigger. Great horn.
Some time ago, I got my own 184L. It seems to play fine, but it's got the trigger instead. I've always hated triggers, but I figured - why not give it a try? Well, I've been practicing it a fair amount recently, and the more I do, the more I hate the Bach trigger. As Richard said, it's small, it's very stiff, AND it's positioned badly for me.
Are you supposed to use your left thumb for these first slide triggers? If so, the Bach one is in a terrible position. It fits Ok for the right thumb, but I'm not trained to use that thumb for tuning - besides it destroys my hand position. It's way too far to the starboard (right) side of the cornet. For my small hand, it's a reach to get to it with the left thumb. Even worse, it's angled away from the left side. I have some arthritis - it's never been much of an issue for me with trumpet for years, but I this stiff and poor trigger is putting some strain on things.
Also, the linkage from the slide to the trigger has already broken twice on this horn. It when I took it in for an initial cleaning after purchasing it. After the store ordered a replacement part after a few months (during which I was considering having a saddle installed instead) that one broke after being used about a dozen times while I was still at the repair shop and talking to the tech. He ended up silver soldering it back together - hopefully making it stronger. It's holding up so far - but, so far this trigger has nothing to recommend it to me. After my gigs in a few weeks, I'm pretty sure I'll have it removed and replaced with something a saddle I can actually use.
I've also got a trigger on a Getzen Capri that seems better. Also, I picked up an old Besson 10-10 trumpet with the dual triggers I'll give a very fair chance to when I get around to rehabilitating it. They seemed decent when I last held it. The third slide ring trigger was interesting. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Hand size plays a part in trigger preference. I have large hands, and prefer the Bach first-slide trigger because I like to wrap my left thumb around the first valve casing and only then encounter the trigger. The Benge first-valve trigger (on the Mendez and Opera) put the paddle in an even better location for me, but the pivot screw digs into the base of my thumb. I don't much like the first-slide trigger on my Selmer K-Modified trumpet because it's mounted right on the mouthpiece side of the first valve casing, preventing me from putting my thumb where I like it. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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brianj Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2006 Posts: 239
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Hi
I'm not really bothered either way between triggers or rings. My Bb, C and Eb/D all have rings, my short model cornet has triggers and the long model has rings and all seem to do the job fine.
The strangest one has been my picc. It has a 3rd valve ring, but on the 1st valve I had a saddle that was mostly dependable but not 100%. So I made up a 1st valve trigger for it and it is totally reliable. It's such a short slide that the trigger pushes the slide out and pulls it back in a straight line whereas the thumb saddle applied the pressure differently and caused it to stick sometimes.
all the best
brian jones |
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Greenleaf Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 536
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
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ChopsGone wrote: |
See if you Olds types recognize anything:
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(In my best Monty Python voice) What? The hand-hammered bell? _________________
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A.N.A.Mendez Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 5228 Location: ca.
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Yes, but the mounting and angles give me shivers! _________________ "There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860
☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚ |
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roynj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Bottom line is that triggers can be hard to get "right". Yamaha Xeno, great. Bach trigger, bad. Besson Sov., bad. Getzen 3850, good but maybe not great. Yet, almost everyone can put a hook/ring combo on a cornet and it will work pretty good, and some say better. |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6192
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Roy,
That summed it up quite nicely. |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9372 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I play a Bach 184 and the trigger is easy to use with my left thumb and has never broken (the cornet is almost 20 years old). I've never thought of it, but after reading this thread, maybe the return spring is a bit stiff. I may look into having a softer one put on. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Arpeggio Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 153
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to see the discussion going both ways.
I have always preferred saddles and rings over triggers simply because they better fit my hands and they're mechanically simpler. That said, horns with triggers of various sorts can be a lot of fun -- various flugels (original or added on), various Olds horns, Silver Flair trumpets, some Benge trumpets, and so on.
One interesting issue is that triggers add more mass to the horn than slides and rings do, and some designers feel this can help solidify the horn's tone -- rather like harmonic balancers, heavy caps and so forth. |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | Well, I play a Bach 184 and the trigger is easy to use with my left thumb and has never broken (the cornet is almost 20 years old). I've never thought of it, but after reading this thread, maybe the return spring is a bit stiff. I may look into having a softer one put on. |
Hi
I totally agree.
I have probably the smallest hands and shortest thumbs of anyone posting on here, around the size of a ten year old girl, and I have absolutely no problem with the Bach trigger, which I also operate with my left thumb.
I really think it is simply a case of what you get used to, as this has been by main instrument for seventeen years. I have never had any issues with the trigger breaking either.
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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