Harrelson vs Monette

[trmptz]

[EdMann]

Couldn't get throught that. I'm already reading a book.

[Crazy Finn]

[hose]

A couple of years ago a friend was trying a couple of different mpc and horn combos. He asked his musician wife to help him with her ears. Finally, after some time of A vs B vs C she said, "Honey, they all sound like a trumpet." I remember that statement every time I get immersed in similar equipment sound differences. The average person doesn't give a d.... They just want to hear music.
_________________
Dave Wisner

Picketts
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[40cal]

I own a monette and a harrelson. At no time did I feel as if I was "slumming".

[spitvalve]

[AverageJoe]

[JasonHarrelson]

Man, some of you guys go on and on speculating, but where are the comparisons? I started out playing a Getzen cornet, then a 60's Bach Strad that played worse than the cornet. Over the years I have owned 7 Monettes including the Ajna II. I have built nearly 800 Harrelson trumpets and have owned every major brand of trumpet encompassing over 200 various models. Besides owning and playing these instruments, I measured them. I have templates and specs on most leadpipes, bells and tuning slides from most of the more than 1000 horns I have owned and built.

I have a few comments related to previous posts, then on to comparisons...

1) YOU will not always sound like YOU on every horn.

If this were true, why would anyone buy a new horn before it fell apart? To expound on my assertion, the physical design of each instrument in some part determines the sound aside of the player's physical attributes. To take this one step further, would YOU sound like YOU on a tuba compared to a trumpet? Using a tuba as an example is extreme, but trumpet designs have for the most part remained nearly unchanged over the course of history. Very few instruments are built with original (and intentional) acoustic properties. Monette and Harrelson trumpets are definitely an exception to this rule. The range of variation in acoustic design among factory built horns is relatively small. Most manufacturers offer(ed) variations on bore size, mouthpiece shanks, leadpipe and bell tapers and tuning slide shapes. However, the mainstream sales numbers gravitated towards Bach/Besson tapers and inside diameters resulting in most trumpets sounding very similar. Will YOU sound like YOU on any number of factory built instruments? There's a good chance that you will. However, should you want to brighten, darken or broaden your sound spectrum considerably, there are modern instruments that will make you sound drastically different than YOU. Not everyone has this goal, which is why I build each instrument to match the playing preferences of each individual client. You do not see Harrelson trumpets available in music stores for this reason. Could I sell a thousand horns a year with worldwide distribution? Of course, but my goal is to work with each of you individually building something unique, special and of the highest quality. YOU can sound like WHO YOU WANT by changing more than a mouthpiece, this is a fact.

2) Comparing Harrelson and Monette trumpets is not a simple exercise with an accurate or applicable outcome when playing two random horns or when based on a third party experience.

This is due to the fact that none of these horns were designed to be "stock" cookie cutter production instruments. Monette builds every horn one at a time taking the time, measurements and careful production techniques necessary to ensure each instrument is of the highest quality possible. I do the same when I build every new Harrelson. But what isn't apparent when you test one of my horns is the specific intention of the design of THAT PARTICULAR HORN. You could compare a hundred different BRAVURAS to a PRANA and find that they all play distinctively different from one another. How then could you compare them to anything? And what then do you compare them to? Ideally, you would compare a Bravura built to your specifications to a Monette built to your specifications and then post your response for all to read.

3) You get what you pay for...or do you?

Is a $6000 Monette twice as great as a $3000 Bravura? And if so, is it then six times better than a used Bach? Maybe. But consider the following. The price of a product is typically set based on a business model which takes account for expenses of all types. I know for a fact that the Bravura plays just as well as a comparable Monette (most of the 900 and Prana series instruments). How do I know? Because I know my competition. I've owned and played on Dave's horns extensively as well as numerous other horns from companies around the world. Do I build horns that are copies of Monettes? Absolutely not. My design model encompasses physics research, real life playing, extensive experimentation and each client's individual needs.

Back to the original question, the Harrelson Bravura is 1/2 the cost simply because I produce a comparable quality instrument at a lower cost. I build every instrument myself, thus reducing the cost of physical labor. I use a combination of cnc production techniques and proprietary manual production at a faster rate than Monette, which allows my cost to be much more reasonable. However, you are comparing two American companies building the highest quality products available. Can you really put a price on Made in USA? When will we end the "cheaper is better" mentality and support fellow Americans striving to create and maintain jobs in our own country? Price can be important when buying laundry soap and socks, but when it comes to your musical passion give yourself some credit. Do you drive a Kia because it's cheap? If so, then you should have some $ leftover for a Monette!

MONETTE vs HARRELSON COMPARISON

My response to this thread is simple. Attend the ITG Conference in Minneapolis next spring and compare both brands back to back yourself. There is no way you can fully understand or relate to a fellow TH member's response to this thread. Trying two horns yourself is the answer to this question. With that in mind, you are all welcome to try my latest Modular Bravura and Summit trumpets as the demos are completed in the coming weeks. Just give Paul a call and he'll get you on our waiting list at no charge.

Thanks for reading,
Jason Harrelson
_________________
Harrelson Trumpets
www.whyharrelson.com

[RandyTX]

Maybe another take on this comparison worth factoring in:

Of the two, which of the choices has the best chance of being delivered to you while you're still young enough to enjoy it?
_________________
"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."

[JasonHarrelson]

Good question! While moving my ENTIRE shop in the past year and setting up several new machines, my waiting list lagged on some orders dependent on specific configurations. However, with the exception of the #7 bell instruments, my waiting list is 40-60 days on almost all instrument orders.

This is achieved by limiting the number of orders we accept in any given period of time to ensure quicker turnaround times.

Getting slammed with 80-100 orders within one or two months has been a real burden on my business in the past. Our new policy ensures new customers wait around 2 months or less. Please keep in mind that custom art projects (like our current Gravity trumpet) are always subject to longer production schedules.

Jason
_________________
Harrelson Trumpets
www.whyharrelson.com

[swingshift]

here's another point...as jason said...every horn is different...my summit has a beautiful even scale...SUPER in tune....(i may have a bit to do with that but i don't have to try so hard to keep it there)...I have a buddy who's monette has a flat d on the staff...always...so, even a $6000 horn can have issues..its a piece of equipment...i don't think you can compare them from a quality standpoint...jasons work is exceptional as is dave's...price sure is different...but more and more people are discovering harrelson..2 more coming to my home town in the next month or so and I'm ordering a new C trumpet to match my summit...sooo, just like dave...jason started small...and is growing...both great makers...jasons are less expensive (for now!) so get the horn that makes you sound good and you enjoy playing that you are willing to pay for ...Me...I'd much rather have 2 harrelsons for $6k than one monette...
by the way...i have played both...loved the monette...but i really love my summit...ask anyone...ask the 3 local guys who just ordered horns from jason after trying mine...he makes some great stuff or all my friends wouldn't be dumpin' some cash jason's direction!
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Carol 5000 ylt-slt
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[gbdeamer]

Great post Jason. Thanks for the feedback.

[James B. Quick]

[quote] custom art projects (like our current Gravity trumpet) [quote]

Will there be a complementary model named the "Levity" trumpet?

jbq

[crzytptman]

[MikeyMike]

Posted on Trumpet Herald,
January 04, 2010...

[AndyLott]

...

[INTJ]

I visited Dave's shop a couple of years ago and he is a first class operation. However, aren't Monette's typically offered in a few predefined models? Dave has a definte concept of sound and playing, and that is reflected in his horns. Yes, I did play a couple Monettes, but I can't remember much about how they played other than even the really heavy ones were very responsive. I don't know if Dave does much in the way of custom building horns to fit a player. The approach seems more of making the player fit the horn, which works very well for many players.

Jason has an entirely different idea. Though he has different models, they are mainly custom builds. You work with him to pick a leadpipe and a bell based on your playing and sound concept. Jason works to fit the player to the horn. I have played one Bravura, but I really can't compare it to anything. I did like the blow of the #6 LP with the round tuning slide, but I wasn't crazy about the sound of the ES bell on that horn. I DID like how it fixed my inotnation issues--G and A on top of the staff sharp, E below flat, etc. To that end I have Bravura on oder with a #6 LP and a different bell that will produce more of the sound I am looking for.
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Harrelson 5mm MP

[Mark Bradley]

I've had very limited personal experience with Monette instruments but enough of the big boys play them to indicate that they must be very special instruments. One main reason I've never looked into a Monette for personal use (besides the price) is that my understanding is that you pretty much have to use Monette mouthpieces with them and I've never played a Monette that I liked (settle down-- I'm sure they're fine, just not for me).

That being said I've owned a Bravura and a HT3 withe the #1 leadpipe and #3 bell, his "standard" config. along with other options. Both were outstanding. The best trumpet player in the midwest Stan Kessler plays a Bravura and that's a huge endorsement in my opinion. He knows his stuff.

I recently had a second HT3 made with the #4 lead pipe and #4 bell-- tweaking some things I wanted to change with my previous HT3 and I tell you, it's one heck of a nice trumpet. If you take advantage of some of Harrelson's fire sales you can get a very good deal on what is in my opinion one of the very finest trumpets money can buy, price be hanged. As far as the wait, I have a friend who waited over a year for a Schilke B1 and didn't get any updates on its progress at all. So the few months wait for a custom made trumpet made just how you like it from Harrelson (for probably considerably less than a new Schilke) doesn't sound bad to me. Harrelson has had some customer service problems to be sure, and I've had some rough spots dealing with them in the past myself but the main thing is he seems to be trying to improve and they're legitimate... no fly by night outfit ripping people off. You get what you pay for and what is still a very under appreciated instrument to boot.

You can check out my new updated self aggrandizing web site gearhead page here:

http://jazztrpt.freeservers.com/photo3.html

[Kofipoiss]

[trumpethead]