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garden gnome Regular Member
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 46
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't Monette get his designs from his cat? I think kitties are so cute. Who wouldn't want a trumpet that was designed by a cute little kitty-cat, and built by someone that was willing to admit that his cat designed it publicly? |
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FDC05 Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 441 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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garden gnome wrote: | Didn't Monette get his designs from his cat? I think kitties are so cute. Who wouldn't want a trumpet that was designed by a cute little kitty-cat, and built by someone that was willing to admit that his cat designed it publicly? |
Although you're clearly kidding around, this does come up a lot and is simply not true. Some people do, in fact, believe "STC" stands for "Sheldon the Cat" but it does not. People have claimed that Dave has said this publicly, though I have never seen evidence of this.
Watch this starting at 5:30.... it's Jerry Webster's introduction to the Monette 25th Anniversary Concert at the Monette shop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SXLtHyZgb8 _________________ Mark |
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Ray Riccomini Regular Member
Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 50 Location: NYC
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Way back in June of 1992, I was at the Monette shop in Chicago buying a c1-2 mouthpiece with a friend of mine,a french horn player. Dave was great and actually gave us a tour of the entire shop. While I was just in awe of everything there, my friend came right out and asked where the designs came from. If I had not heard Mr. Monette reply that his cat did indeed tell him what to do with my own ears, I would not have believed it. Maybe he was joking, but I can't say.
BTW the mouthpiece was great for me, and I still play on a copy of the rim.
Ray Riccomini |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Ray Riccomini wrote: | Way back in June of 1992, I was at the Monette shop in Chicago buying a c1-2 mouthpiece with a friend of mine,a french horn player. Dave was great and actually gave us a tour of the entire shop. While I was just in awe of everything there, my friend came right out and asked where the designs came from. If I had not heard Mr. Monette reply that his cat did indeed tell him what to do with my own ears, I would not have believed it. Maybe he was joking, but I can't say.
BTW the mouthpiece was great for me, and I still play on a copy of the rim.
Ray Riccomini |
So this is why all the "cats" play Monettes??
I wonder if Sheldon could spin his head all the way around?
O-o-o-kay.
Brian _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Capt.Kirk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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My statement about "slumming" was not to meant as an affront against the quality of the Harrelson line to be clear. It was meant as a comment about "Social" status based on cost and "exclusivity" or the idea of it. Anyone that is not loaded that plays Golf has ran into it I am sure. My Mother's family comes from Money. My Grandfather owned much of the land that is not Silicone Valley back when it was Orchard's. Parties at Knob Hill and the like......... I chose not to live out in California with that side of the family and not to embrace that life style. That does not mean I do not love my family a lot. I pulled up to the door's and tossed my key's to the Toyota Old Vintage Toyota Landcrusier FJ40 I was driving at the time and the other member's looked at me like I had smallpox's in spite of my best golfing attire which back then was Payne Stewart like and very traditional. The old and very beautiful LandCrusier was not upscale enough for that crowd so I had no value or worth to them that is what I meant. So it was just meant that based on price the Harrelson would not garner as much exclusivity or prestige since you could get 2 or more Harrelsons for the price of one new Monette. It was not a value assessment or a slight to their build quality!
pricing is often based on the market you want to get at. If the price is too low people assume it must be junk and avoid it and bad mouth it!!! We have seen that happen on this site. One of the reasons trumpets cost as much as they do is because most people are about as market savvy as box of rocks and they cut their own throats and those of all that follow them! They assume price is an indicator of quality and as such OEM's have to price an item much higher then they might want to so as not to be labeled as junk often by those that will never even try the product or have made up their minds before ever trying the product!Most people are not intellectually honest enough or adventurous enough to try new things and take a chance. That is why in spite of the great reviews some of them from big players in the community many still have not tried the Carol line. Instead they will wait for the price to go up get in late and then join the band wagon about how great these horns are! History always repeats itself! marketing is based on history, advertising, logistics and manufacturing.....It is not at all a simple matter and it is what makes the world go round. In fact since Adolph Hitler rose to power and fell marketing and the wheels that be behind marketing is what has been shaping consumer buying or spending and the lives of all of you! The more you learn about it the more power you will have over your own life!
Too bad Jason did not give away any hard facts in his post! Seeing how he has measured over 800 trumpets and has the templates sure would have been nice to get some actual hard facts!!! Instead all we got was a Speech from the Man behind the Curtain aka the Wizard of Oz!LOL
Again even I said you cannot A-B them and that is much the take home statement from Jason. Just would have liked more science and measurements and such as too the key differences. Oh well! _________________ The only easy day was yesterday! |
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lh Claude Gordon Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Any room left for the kitchen sink?
You've already covered grammatical errors, syntax problems, loosely connected metaphors, nonspecific analogies, verbal asides, stories about grandpa, conversations within conversations, unsubstantiated statements about manufacturers, and even the obligatory reference to Hitler.
At least try to follow the advice others have provided for you about writing succinctly and for clarity. It looks like you have chosen once again to ignore it. |
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puckish02 New Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 9
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: |
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"You can no more A_B a Harrelson and Monette than you can A-B a Porsche GT and Ford Mustang!!!"
I guess my understanding of what it means to "A-B" two products is different than yours, John. No, you can't A-B apples to oranges . . . but you can A-B citrus fruits or apple varieties, high performance automobiles and, yes, Bb trumpets. I didn't read beyond your opening salvo suggesting an A-B comparison was not possible . . . because, clearly, that suggestion is nonsense. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
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"Da-da-dum-dum-dum. Another one bites the dust!
And another one's gone, and another one's gone.
Another one bites the dust!"
Brino _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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crzytptman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I think Suzy still does the valve alignments in Flip's shop, or at least she checks them. _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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TupeloCOTA Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Oct 2009 Posts: 305 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I guess my understanding of what it means to "A-B" two products is different than yours, John. No, you can't A-B apples to oranges . . . but you can A-B citrus fruits or apple varieties, high performance automobiles and, yes, Bb trumpets. I didn't read beyond your opening salvo suggesting an A-B comparison was not possible . . . because, clearly, that suggestion is nonsense. |
+1
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water....... _________________ LA Benge 3X+
Conn Connquest 77B
Olds Ambassador Cornet
Chinese 3+1 Piccolo
Curry 1.5 C/DC |
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ohiotpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 988
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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crzytptman wrote: | I think Suzy still does the valve alignments in Flip's shop, or at least she checks them. |
No, Suzi-Q was transferred to customer relations.
http://www.flipoakes.com/suzi_q.htm
This is Suzi's cousin on guard duty
_________________ -fred
Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: |
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crzytptman wrote: | I think Suzy still does the valve alignments in Flip's shop, or at least she checks them. |
Alas, poor Suzy-Q passed on in 2010.
She will have to check on alignments more "celestial" than before.
Brian _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Retlaw Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2006 Posts: 3263 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Oh dear..... are Flip's horns now out of alignment.....?
Walter _________________ "Amazing how many people listen with their eyes."
"Life is short....play nice." |
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Capt.Kirk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:31 am Post subject: |
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Well I think two items have to be much more similar then the two horns being compared. Forinstance a B&S with their version of a Bch 37 bell and 25 pipe can be A-B compared to a Bach with 37 bell and 25 pipe. When you get too far away from each other again Porsche 911 Turbo compared to a Mustang you are just not going to generate anything meaningful.
You could easily compare each one to a known given common denominator. So if you had a gold standard for me that would be a Bach 72 beel Heavy gold brass and 43 pipe and you gave that as the given you could then compare a given configuration or Monette to that standard and then compare a given configuration of Harrelson trumpet to that same standard. Then your comparison would have some merit because everyone knows what the standard is. With out that you might as well try to describe a face to a sketch artist over the phone with out being able to see what he is drawing in response to your description.
With out a point of reference most descriptions are meaningless banter because we use subjective language that has no value or pint weighted system to set things up for repeatable understanding. _________________ The only easy day was yesterday! |
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michaelmullins Regular Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 57 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Its always nice to get opinions and as much info as possible on instruments, but anyone who is actually serious about buying a Harrelson or a Monette, would go out of their way to play both first. its a big investment to make based on an internet forum.... |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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It is entirely possible and maybe even probable that play either a Monette or Harrelson would be detrimental to one's decision making process. In both cases, if I'm not mistaken, the builder consults with the prospect to tailor the new creation specifically for that person. Another person might require a totally different solution that may be "just the ticket" to fulfill the player's needs and desires.
I think actual experience and testimony from a variety of customers is the best idea. Then, stuff your wallet and drive to the factory or dial the number! Ante up for the journey and enjoy the ride. Hopefully, the final instrument will be terrific.
Brian _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Dan O'Donnell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 2287
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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laurent,
This is an older thread, so if you are still tracking this thread, I will attempt to answer your (2) questions...
"Has anyone played horns from both of these makers?"
Yes. I have played a couple of horns from both makers.
"How do they compare?"
In my opinion...after playing them and hearing others play them...the main difference in SOUND that I immediately noticed was...
The Monettes are like machines...it is almost like different sounds from different players go into the horn...and the same sound goes out of the horn in a good way.
The Harrelson's sounded a little more like ourselves in a good way.
In general, they were all great horns just different.
Once you play test horns at this high level of Quality, design etc, I strongly believe the differences are far less obvious than the significant differences between say a cheap student horn made in China compared to say a Bach Strat.
I hope more people chime in who have actually played horns from both of these makers therefore providing you with what you originally asked for. _________________ God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell
"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3 |
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Hugh Anderson Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 Posts: 398
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:20 am Post subject: |
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If you have to have 2 instruments side by side to tell the difference, buy the cheaper one. |
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Capt.Kirk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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To be clear my point was two models have to be more similar then dis-similar to make good comparison. If the bell profiles are two different for instance the comparison is not worth much. IF your only goal is to point out differences between them it is fine to A-B dis-similar models. It is when you attempt to compare them for the same purpose that problems arise. FOr instance two bells with large throats and open blow ok to A-B if one is tight and has tight throat and one is open blow open throat what good is A-B'ing them?
So comparing a Kanstul 1537, Getzen Proteus and Bach 180S37 all good more similar then dissimilar. Comparing those to a WildThing kind of pointless from an A-B stand point! _________________ The only easy day was yesterday! |
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chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:46 am Post subject: |
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between those two brands, the answer is none of the above.
i would start with a standard weight instrument, so it can easily be lived with, and one of the other premier fabricators.
too many people have two harrelsons, couldn't get it right the first time perhaps, or a harrelson they don't play but they play something else. too many other factories really understand trumpet building to an exquisite level to weight a sale over to monette.
all you need to do is figure out what style of music you are playing, and order the trumpet that's made to that purpose.
..chuck |
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