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nyctrumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 1992 Location: New York City
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: Bobby Shew's Thoughts on Aperture |
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I can't remember exactly where I got this but it is on one of the readings that Shew has put out there. It's slightly different than what is on his website. Check it out -
Bobby Shew’s Thoughts On Aperture
It always amazes me how much time and effort goes into “arguing” about HOW to play. If minds were more openly relaxed and ego’s weren’t flaring, I think the entire thing would straighten out. Oh, never mind, probably NOT!
Now, about open apertures. Looking at this strictly from a scientific point of view, the ONLY way to really answer it, it is NOT POSSIBLE to play a note with the lips together. Some people who have been taught in the “traditional”, or classical, approach have ended up with a slight misunderstanding of what makes the sound. They believe that their lips must keep BUZZING while they play. This sets an idea into the subliminal level which perpetuates this feeling of holding them closed or at least tight while blowing.
BUZZING is basically understood as lip buzzing with no mouthpiece. This is an isometric, somewhat static, tightening of the lips. When trying to blow thru a mouthpiece and thereby thru a trumpet with this setting, the extraneous tension causes interference with the required airflow and many players feel tremendous tension and pressure in their heads and throats. This is primarily caused by the air backing up because of the wall of interference.
As far as what is required to produce sound, the air must move THRU the lips, setting up sympathetic vibrations from the vortices of the airflow. Simply, part of the air moves somewhat directly THRU and into the mouthpiece, some of it sheds in waves as it moves in eddies around the lip surfaces, and some of the air moves back inward after “pressurizing” inside the mouthpiece cup. It can’t ALL go thru the throat/drill of the cup. If the throat were drilled out enough to allow this the compression would drop so low that no one would ever be able to play out of the staff.
Anyway, back to the issue. Players who have conditioned themselves to think in tighter terms are STARTING the sound by blowing their lips apart until the vortices are formed. The size of the aperture has a lo to do with determining the quality of the produced sound, i.e. degree of overtones, intonation, etc.
On the other side of the option coin is the ability to start the sound with the aperture already pre-set in an open position which has been determined through a method of practicing with this in mind.
I have observed that some players, especially those under the pressure of orchestral playing, feel a bit more secure by starting the sound with a lip buzz and then opening them once they have found the center of the note. Obviously, this is a split-second occurrence, not a slow process. One must listen closely to the player in order to hear him do this opening movement, but it is there if you know what to listen for.
Players who work in more “aggressive” situations such as big bands, theatre, production shows such as Las Vegas, plus those who play in top 40 bands, funk bands, latin bands, cruise ships etc., usually will tend to gravitate towards the latter style, i.e., playing with a more open and pre-set aperture.
Just remember … EVERYONE plays with an open aperture to some degree depending upon the style and all of the arbitraries that go along with each situation.
In spite of what people often think, this can all be answered by a lot of common sense … a sometimes not-so-common condition in our world of trumpet mania.
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garrett901 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 1248 Location: Vacaville CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:58 am Post subject: |
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100% agree !!! I believe that's why there is always a discussion on the subject. Neither side being wrong, for the way they play...
I am on the side of open aperture. When I play a (we'll just say a ) "G" thru my mouthpiece alone, it's NOT buzzing. Keep "playing" and gently insert the horn onto the mouthpiece and, a "G" emits from the bell. Gently pull the horn off and only air from the MP. Not advocating whether its correct or not, just the way I do it. _________________ Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org |
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nyctrumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 1992 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: |
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garrett901 wrote: | 100% agree !!! I believe that's why there is always a discussion on the subject. Neither side being wrong, for the way they play...
I am on the side of open aperture. When I play a (we'll just say a ) "G" thru my mouthpiece alone, it's NOT buzzing. Keep "playing" and gently insert the horn onto the mouthpiece and, a "G" emits from the bell. Gently pull the horn off and only air from the MP. Not advocating whether its correct or not, just the way I do it. |
I with you. In one of the previous threads I posted an Allen Vizzutti video where he says he is anti buzz and does that exact thing, all air no buzz. People have however seen him lip buzz. So whats with that. Its a way to get the blood in the kips going just like Shew talks about: flapping, lip buzz, mpc buzz: all for that same reason. And like you its the way I like to do it. |
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garrett901 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 1248 Location: Vacaville CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Yep... I free buzz too. Only I try to go as low as I possibly can. My thought is that helps me keep the aperture soft and flexible so it can react better. I also Buzz on the MP, though I don't think it has any benefit to playing the horn. I could be wrong. I do use it as a teaching aid to help someone understand the principle of slurring even though it does not "work" that way in the horn, it seems to help grasp the concept... _________________ Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org |
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rockford Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2477 Location: Northern VA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I'm always amazed and interested in the vastly different ways highly successful players describe how they go about the mechanics of playing. It confirms my belief that, assuming the mechanics don't somehow get in the way, the real musical artisty is in the mind. _________________ Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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Jerry Freedman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2002 Posts: 2476 Location: Burlington, Massachusetts
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:35 am Post subject: |
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There are as many teacher/players that advocate buzzing as there are teacher/players who are against it. The bottom line, at least for me, is to do what works. A few years ago, buzzing into the horn worked great. Haven't done it for a while and I am doing okay. I am sure that at some time in the future, will buzz again with good results. Be pragmatic and don't let dogmatism get in the way |
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EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: |
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I was lucky to meet and play with Bobby in the 70's at a UCLA clinic not long after he made some adjustments to his approach to save his chops from the constant pressure he subjected them to. As I recall, it was somewhat less about whether the aperture was open or not (it never is really closed anyway), but what the air was doing and your approach to that, hence his use of wedge and yoga breathing.
Bobby actually does advocate some free buzzing, no more than a few minutes, and certainly nothing wrong using it to stengthen corners on non-gig days. Check out his website. Most all of this is there.
ed |
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nyctrumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 1992 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Nice posts. I'm glad a thread could inspire some positive thoughts and reactions. I would love to meet Bobby and hang with him and pick his brain. He made ways for himself that make sense and to save him from the high physical demands of the instrument. He's doing it his way for him and we do it our for us, some of it lines up with Shew, others not. Music is truly unique in many ways. |
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Warner Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 125
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:36 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry this probably seems like a stupid question but what it actually meant be an "open aperture"? |
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flaskman Regular Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Placerville, CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:59 am Post subject: Bobbie Shew Rocks! |
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Saw you in Columbia (Sonora) last week. You were fabulous. I was the guy standing outside the door on the side getting a free concert! Anyway thank you for your insight on aperature. I agree there are so many schools of thoughts here, but you just have to go with what works for you even if it is not the most "technically" correct thing in the world. |
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nyctrumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 1992 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Bobby is not the original poster BTW. But he is certainly an incredible musician and teacher. |
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James B. Quick Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2003 Posts: 2067 Location: La Crosse, WI
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | but what it actually meant be an "open aperture"? |
The aperature is the opening between the lips through which the air flows into the mthpce. A closed aperature is one where the lips are held together, only opening enough to allow air through. An open aperature is one where the lips are more 'open'...
jbq |
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jimh46 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Posts: 244 Location: Ottawa
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: Bobby Shew's Thoughts on Aperture |
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Warner wrote: | I'm sorry this probably seems like a stupid question but what it actually meant be an "open aperture"? |
Your question is not stupid at all. I have often wondered the same thing myself.
To date I have heard no explanation of this that makes any sense to me.
Aperture size is primarily the amplitude of the vibrating lip opening and varies according to the pitch, and volume of the tone being produced. It is influenced by a combination of lip tension and recruited vibrating lip mass. At best it can be viewed as a byproduct of these factors.
The definition of what is a 'closed' aperture as opposed to an 'open' aperture seems very subjective.
Regards
Jim
Regards
Jim |
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garrett901 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 1248 Location: Vacaville CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Open aperture:
You allow the horn to cause the lips to vibrate.
You start the note with air only.
You start the note with your lips open.
Closed aperture:
You buzz your lips.
The buzz is the same whether you free buzz; buzz into your mouthpiece or into your horn.
You start the note with your lips closed. _________________ Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org |
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Jerry Freedman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2002 Posts: 2476 Location: Burlington, Massachusetts
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that it is quite so definite. There is more of a spectrum. Reinhardt and Pops both fall somewhere in between |
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garrett901 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 1248 Location: Vacaville CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I don't think that it is quite so definite. There is more of a spectrum. Reinhardt and Pops both fall somewhere in between |
No argument from me... I don't think there are ANY absolutes in brass playing. _________________ Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org |
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nyctrumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 1992 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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garrett901 wrote: | Quote: | I don't think that it is quite so definite. There is more of a spectrum. Reinhardt and Pops both fall somewhere in between |
No argument from me... I don't think there are ANY absolutes in brass playing. |
The only absolute is that we all do it differently to our own success. |
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pepperdean Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 650 Location: Johnson City, Texas
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Garrett, I like to describe my "closed aperture" as one where the air pushes a path through relaxed lips and the feedback from the horn creates the embouchure and vibration. I've stayed with the advice from Carmine Caruso that the force of air striking the facial mask sets the appropriate tension. I hope my poor description hasn't caused too much of a contradiction.
I believe the concept of setting the embouchure and buzzing the lips cause too much tension and potentially less than optimum resonance. Asking students to breathe in, immediately turn the air around to exhale, and having that air strike relaxed, together lips has resulted in dramatic improvement in sound, endurance, and flexibility for many. For my playing and teaching, the embouchure takes shape as the air strikes it and the vibration begins.
Alan |
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garrett901 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 1248 Location: Vacaville CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:15 am Post subject: |
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If it works.... Go with it. I suspect there is as many ways of producing sound as there are horn players !
When I say, "start with an open apature" this is what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzKRHabZWOg&feature=player_detailpage
Hope that helps. Not trying to say one way is better than the other, just there are other ways.
P.S. I've always played this way and I have NEVER had a lesson in my life. All that I have learned from playing a horn has been from watching, attending clinics and reading articles by the pro players. This was back starting in 1975 thru 1983, back before I joined the Air Force. January 22, 2008 was the day I pulled my Yamaha YTR-739T out of storage, and began playing again _________________ Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org |
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nyctrumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 1992 Location: New York City
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:52 am Post subject: |
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garrett901 wrote: | If it works.... Go with it. I suspect there is as many ways of producing sound as there are horn players !
When I say, "start with an open apature" this is what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzKRHabZWOg&feature=player_detailpage
Hope that helps. Not trying to say one way is better than the other, just there are other ways.
P.S. I've always played this way and I have NEVER had a lesson in my life. All that I have learned from playing a horn has been from watching, attending clinics and reading articles by the pro players. This was back starting in 1975 thru 1983, back before I joined the Air Force. January 22, 2008 was the day I pulled my Yamaha YTR-739T out of storage, and began playing again |
I love that video. Vizzutti does the same thing with the horn. As we see when the aperture is open like that the sound is created by air vibration. The lips "buzz" through sympathetic vibration. When Vizzutti talks about this he says when you buzz and then play like that you get a fuzzy beginner sound. When you don't you use the air to vibrate the lips which are not forced together and a free and open sound can occur. This becomes more obvious wit the leadpipe. Now, Shew talks about buzzing but in the way he talks about it is for isometrics and to get the blood flowing in the chops. I think this is a very clear insight into how an open aperture works and that it really does work. |
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