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What the *#$&@ is this?? Besson "Enharmonic" f



 
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Indofunk
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:31 am    Post subject: What the *#$&@ is this?? Besson "Enharmonic" f Reply with quote

http://cgi.ebay.com/EXTREMELY-RARE-Bb-FLUGELHORN-BESSON-ENHARMONIC-MUSEUM-/300530584520?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item45f904cbc8

From the word "compensating" I assumed it would be akin to a F/C compensating horn, but on that flugel I don't see a valve to switch keys. After a little Googling, I found this description of Besson compensating euphoniums (euphonia?):

Quote:
Enharmonic System, Brief Description;

Besson came up with the idea of adapting the system used on the full double French Horns, that of offering two sets of slides for different parts of the range, and my very rare Besson ‘Enharmonic’ Euphonium is the latest addition to the collection.

The 3 tuning slides for the middle and upper register notes are at the back of the instrument, and a longer set (for lower notes) is then placed on the front.

Now here’s the complicated part, the mouth-pipe leads directly into the 3rd.valve instead of the 1st. If the 3rd. valve is not used, the wind-way goes through into the 1st. & 2nd. valves in the normal way, and back through the 3rd. to the bell, having used the short set of slides.
If the 3rd. is operated, the wind-way goes through the 1st. & 2nd. valves by a different route, including a tuning slide, and is directed through separate longer loops of tubing (having used the front set).

The whole range of valve instruments (except the Soprano Cornet) was available in enharmonic form, however, the obvious weight problems when you get to the tubas must have been enormous, which is probably why only 3 valve models were made of the monster double B flat tubas. The range was eventually discontinued.

source: http://www.euphonium.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115


So by my calculations, you can't ever play a low D, C#, or any Ab using "standard" fingerings, you'd have to use the other, lower side of the horn. BTW, what key is that "other" side in?
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stumac
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is not an "other side as" in a compensating french horn, the extra longer valve slides were switched to when the third valve was used in order to correct the sharpness of C#, D and Eb, the fingering was as normal.

Regards, Stuart.
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Indofunk
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the clarification. What a strange system to use just to get a few notes in tune. A third valve trigger is so much easier and uses less metal. Or as I do with my Couesnon, just lip it down
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stumac
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes the easiest solution is the hardest to find, it must have been an expensive nightmare to build.

Regards, Stuart.
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tommy t.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumac wrote:
Sometimes the easiest solution is the hardest to find, it must have been an expensive nightmare to build.

Regards, Stuart.


Trumpets aren't, if fact, the whole brass world.

Compensating euphoniums are expensive and highly desired instruments. Among the premium brands, a compensating Wilson runs $3000 more than a non-compensating model.

I am not a low brass player, but I assume that the amount of tubing that has to be extended to be the equivalent of us kicking the third slide out a 1/2" is probably 2". Gotta have a long finger to do that. Likewise, lipping down is going to be proportionally greater a distortion of pitch. That might not be acceptable in a pro quality brass ensemble.

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hup_d_dup
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prof. Scott Whitener, in his book A Complete Guide to Brass, 3rd edition (Schirmer-Cengage Learning 2007) has a full explanation of the compensating system as used by Besson and Boosey & Hawkes. Interestingly, he was not aware that the system was used on a flugelhorn until an e-mail query about this instrument which I sent to my trumpet teacher was forwarded to him a couple of weeks ago. The compensating system was more commonly used for lower brass. Apparently the flugelhorn now on eBay is exceedingly rare, and who knows, perhaps unique!

Here is a quote from Prof. Whitener's message:
"I always wondered if Boosey & Hawkes-Besson had tried the compensating system on anything other than tenor horns, baritones, euphoniums, and tubas. This answers the question. I guess it didn't catch on because of added weight and cost. It would be interesting to know how much it improves the intonation. If you are interested in the compensating system, I cover it in the euphonium chapter of my book. Although it's intended primarily to accurately correct the intonation when the instrument gets long-- 2-3, 1-3, and 1-2-3, it also enables the third valve to be the correct length (rather than longer as usual) to avoid the sharp 1-2 fingering (if you are interested in the acoustics behind why 1-2 is sharp, Vincent Bach discusses this in "The Art of Trumpet Playing.") Arban and possibly some others developed their own 4 valve system to fix the problem and Courtois made in the 19th century Arban model cornets with this system (this is not their current Arban model). This, too, did not catch on and players have always preferred to use the 1st and third slide instead."
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a maze of tubing!
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trumpetmike
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite unique, but definitely very, VERY, rare.

Have seen a couple of examples of high-brass compensating instruments (couple of cornets and now this) - as yet I haven't had the chance to actually play them, but am always intrigued.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a compensating soprano cornet:

http://www.decadesign.com/scptest/booseycompebafter.jpg
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following the patent number 216595 (prominently visible on the last soprano cornet photo), here is the actual patent.
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stumac
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the time of manufacture of the french Besson compensating Flugal Boosey and son of England held the Blaikley patent in which an extra loop was added to the first and second loops when the third valve was depressed.

To get around the patent the Besson system switched between two loops of different lengths on the first and second valves. The principle is the same, the execution is different.

Regards, Stuart.
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RogersBrass
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is nothing odd or strange about this compensating system. It is interesting how complicated the descriptions and explanations become.

The manufacturing of this type of system fell out of favor in the higher brasses..therefore seeing examples of the French Besson, Besson Prototype, and Boosey & Co. instruments does indeed look strange...but it is the same basic sytem in use today with the 3 and 4 valve compensator euphoniums and tubas. The 3 valve system is played the same as a standard 3 valve instrument.

The Besson patent was a 100 year international patent in effect at the time of Boosey & Hawkes prior to WWII...and did not expire until the early 1970s. After the Besson patent expired..the compensator euphoniums were available from other manufacturers. I am under the assumption the Besson patent pre-dates the Blaikley patent with the United States Patent Office.
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