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Valve sticking on my Yamaha


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UFO Hunter
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Joined: 28 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: Valve sticking on my Yamaha Reply with quote

Hello from a newb,

Three months ago I bought a new Yamaha YTR-4335G Series Bb Trumpet in silver. It sounds fantastic and feels good, but the 1st valve would stick once in a while, especially if I press down on it slightly sideways (not perfectly 90 degrees down).

It sticks less if I keep oiling the valve constantly.

I thought maybe it was because the horn was brand new, so after I use it for a while it would "break in" and get better.

After 3 months it *hasn't* gotten any better. In fact I am noticing the 2nd valve also doing it occasionally.

Now I am in somewhat of a quandry... it's too late now to return/exchange the horn to the dealer (WWBW), so I would have to send it back to Yamaha. What I'm worried about is, I could send it back to Yamaha, but since there isn't anything glaringly wrong with the horn, they might just say "There's nothing wrong with your horn". Or they might say they did something and return it to me, and I wouldn't notice any improvement. In that case I would've wasted shipping money, and be without a horn for weeks (or even months).

What should I do?
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Donjon
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Britain statutory rights last for a year after purchase.

It is the store's responsibility to sort it up to this point. Are things different over the pond?
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing you've described sounds like a reason to return the horn, at least not yet. If you haven't routinely washed out the horn and/or wiped the valves then you could still be dealing with the normal break-in. If you've done all that then I recommend you look into different valve oils and I have particularly good luck with T2. It's cured all my valve problems and I've use it to fix a bunch of other horns when friends have trouble in rehearsals and perfomances. (not a paid endorsement, honest)
http://www.bikyle.com/T2.asp
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son's Getzen had a similar issue and it turned out that a very good cleaning, especially at the limits of the down stroke, remedied the issue. The sticking was most likely to happen on slow passages.

While many will gasp in horror, I used a small amount ot toothpaste to assist in cleaning the casing. If you do this make sure you clean thoroughly afterwards.

Hopefully one of the repair techs will weigh in on how they would address this and whether you should send this back to Yamaha.
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cinci-sop
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Yamaha Xeno cornet that had the same problem. Give it a good bath and get the tubing in between the valves clean too. This took care of the problem. Also, and I heard this form another thread here on TH. Don't use the Yamaha valve oil. It is a little on the thick side. I quit using it and switched to Al Case and never had another problem.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing to bear in mind, when valves stick as you describe don't be quick to assume that the oil is either too thick or too thin. Either may be true. The gremlins that are responsible for sticking are fickle. Thin oil may make for generally faster valves but may also provide less protection from sticking.
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Last edited by cheiden on Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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teacherchops
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same problem with my Shew Flugel. I called Yamaha(Canada) and got great service. They sent the horn to their Toronto guy (Ron Partch) and he re-honed the valves. With this horn, the valves were just way too tight. Now the valves are slick. By the way, I was advised to go with a heavier valve oil. Haven't had any problems since. I'd contact your Yamaha rep.
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pmadsen
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried swabbing the casing with rag covered cleaning rod? Also, I have had excellent results with Hetman synthetic valve oil. Good luck.

Pete Madsen
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacherchops wrote:
I had the same problem with my Shew Flugel. I called Yamaha(Canada) and got great service. They sent the horn to their Toronto guy (Ron Partch) and he re-honed the valves. With this horn, the valves were just way too tight. Now the valves are slick. By the way, I was advised to go with a heavier valve oil. Haven't had any problems since. I'd contact your Yamaha rep.

Curiously my Yamaha 731 also has rather tight valves that would be very sluggish with all but the thinner oils, in my case I used Blue Juice with good results. The downside being that I had to reapply fairly often of the valves would stick. When I started using T2 for my Bb I specifically refrained from trying it on my flugel since it seemed thicker than the Blue Juice. One day in a pinch I went ahead and put T2 on the flugel, to my surprise the valves didn't bog down like I had feared. Now I use T2 for all my horns. I suppose I've had faster oils but T2 is plenty fast, lasts like mad never sticks.
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Last edited by cheiden on Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha valves are very fickle indeed - but they work well with Yamaha oils.
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hup_d_dup
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had this problem on my Xeno, and went through 5 or 6 different valve oils until finally solving the problem with Hetmann #1 (even Yamaha oil didn't work well).

That doesn't mean Hetmann #1 will work for you ... just don't give up, try some other oils.

Also the advice given about carefully cleaning the valves on a new instrument is very important. Should be done several times in the first month.
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Weisseguy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:53 am    Post subject: Valves sticking Reply with quote

I had the same problem with my newly purchase Xeno a few years back. Spoke to the factory, and they told me to use Blue Juice. It's been great ever since.
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Ed Hernandez
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For whatever it's worth, had the same problem with the 3rd valve on my 8310Z. Blue Juice took care of it, where Yamaha & other oils did not.
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hien peter
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:53 am    Post subject: a Reply with quote

Hetman works usually - only 2 drops
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fredo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cleaning + Hetmann n° 2
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giakara
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a vintage Yamaha 731 flugel made back in 1971 and if i dont oil htem every single day the valvas stuck and froze , do you belive Hetmann n° 2 could make them work better ?

Regards
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I used Al Cass I needed to oil my 731 every day. With Blue Juice is was little better but not ideal. With T2 I can go much longer between oiling. When I go too long the valves slow but still don't stick.
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giakara
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use T2 special for all my horns and i am very happy with the results but on my 731 is not work .

Regards
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Nos Mo King
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try the new Yamaha synthetic valve oil (light) for new instruments and the vintage for older instruments. (A bit heavier oil). The way I understand it, is, this oil actually has an additive to help break down and eliminate some of the gunk build up. Helps keep Yamaha valves from discoloration, too.

I had used blue juice until the valves were doing the stick em up routine. This cured the problem I was experiencing. It is an expensive oil.

YAC LVO is the product code.
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to wonder how many people that are having valve problems also drink (things other than water) and eat before playing without brushing their teeth.

Everyone I know that is rather fastidious about not doing either of the above doesn't seem to have valve issues. Those that do, seem to constantly be in search of the perfect valve oil to solve issues. Think about it.
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