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Valve sticking on my Yamaha


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Nos Mo King
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Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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Location: Cheyenne WY

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does spaghetti, beer and chewing tobacco count?
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fredo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Response to giakara

I had 3rd valve problem on my committee, lapping by pro and problem always there, only HETMAN 3 works and works fine.

I ve slightly used horns and new horns , the HETMAN 1 is good but dont last a long time, the HETMAN 2 is for me the good all around oil , 100 % synthétic, no gunk.

I dropp oil almost every evening before put the trumpet in the box and swab leadpipe and tuning slide and had since i do that no valve problems on any horn.

Callichio u3/9 ml, Super artist 40 ', Bergeron Yammie, Eterna and Couesnon flugel (Hetman 3 for this one ....) and so many horns i've selled to buy others including a 993 : for this one the Ultrapure was not for me (sticky valves and dont like the smelling probably not good with my chemistery...)

If that dont work good it's the time to give a good bath and clean the horn including the tubing between the valves very important as said before by an other member. (i use for that the leadpipe swab selled by a member of Th : very efficient , dont remember is name)
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree a good cleaning is in order especially if you played it out of the box with out cleaning it first.

I would recommend you pick up something like Castrol Super Clean, Purple Stuff or S Imply Green cleaner. If you have 409 on hand that will work too. All of the above contain the same chemical cleaner I have listed them based on their concentration of that cleaner.

Spray it directly into the bores and really scrub them. Soak the pistons minus the corks and felts.

Before that you might want to use something petro based like Naptha or acetone etc......this will get at any hard core stubborn petro deposits but as new as the horn is I doubt you will need that step.

One gentle man recommended toothpaste lapping......You would basicly take the #1 piston out remove the cap, guides, etc.....coat it with toothpaste white kind must list Hydrated Silica as one of the first 3 ingredients. You insert the piston from the bottom and you work it in and out twisting it slowly as you stroke up and down......Start with 1-2 minutes and go from their. You will need to reapply the tooth paste during that time frame. Do all of the valves then wash well using either a valve brush with bristles or with fiber mop.

Normally I only toothpaste lap horns that have been neglected for a long time in attics or basements.....If you are having valve troubles though it is one of the safest ways to get a good cleaning of the inside of the bore's. Toothpaste is not going to remove any material or cause premature valve wear doing it once a year or less. The reason you have to go in for teeth cleaning is because toothpaste is not very abrasive if it was you would not get plague and calcium deposition on your teeth.

As to a good oil their are more then a few to choose from. Binak is a really good oil developed by a Tribologist not a trumpet player or a tech. Everything about it from the viscosity to the additive package is designed with Brass instruments in mind. It is not synthetic but I do not think you need a synthetic oil to get great performance. My home brew valve oil not only is it cheap to make in large volume but it also works great and it is only partially synthetic. I have not had any build up, sluggish valves, or poor performance at anytime.

You should be cleaning the horn once a mouth giving it a good bath and scrubbing out. Another thing if you are not into washing often is to wipe down the pistons and wipe out the bores. It is too easy once a week to take a microfiber cloth wipe the piston down and then wipe the inside of the bore down re-oil and reassemble. Monel is not a great material in my opinion for trumpet pistons and they tend to not be very tollerant of any type of junk be it from eating and then playing or from drinking sweet or acidic drinks then playing.
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dr-pepp
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Joined: 17 May 2004
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Location: Austin TX

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt.Kirk wrote:
I would recommend you pick up something like Castrol Super Clean, Purple Stuff or S Imply Green cleaner. If you have 409 on hand that will work too. All of the above contain the same chemical cleaner I have listed them based on their concentration of that cleaner.

Spray it directly into the bores and really scrub them. Soak the pistons minus the corks and felts.

Before that you might want to use something petro based like Naptha or acetone etc......this will get at any hard core stubborn petro deposits but as new as the horn is I doubt you will need that step.

One gentle man recommended toothpaste lapping......You would basicly take the #1 piston out remove the cap, guides, etc.....coat it with toothpaste white kind must list Hydrated Silica as one of the first 3 ingredients. You insert the piston from the bottom and you work it in and out twisting it slowly as you stroke up and down......Start with 1-2 minutes and go from their. You will need to reapply the tooth paste during that time frame. Do all of the valves then wash well using either a valve brush with bristles or with fiber mop.

Normally I only toothpaste lap horns that have been neglected for a long time in attics or basements.....If you are having valve troubles though it is one of the safest ways to get a good cleaning of the inside of the bore's. Toothpaste is not going to remove any material or cause premature valve wear doing it once a year or less. The reason you have to go in for teeth cleaning is because toothpaste is not very abrasive if it was you would not get plague and calcium deposition on your teeth.


I disagree with everything quoted above. Considering this is an almost new horn, this is about the worst advice I've ever seen from the Capt'n.

Try some of the traditional cleaning methods mentioned by others and different oil and if you are still having problems, take it to a competent tech.
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Retlaw
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Joined: 23 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1
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BSTRUMPET85
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Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Clark's Viper Oil is great on Yamaha Valves IMO
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giakara
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Joined: 13 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fredo wrote:
Response to giakara

I had 3rd valve problem on my committee, lapping by pro and problem always there, only HETMAN 3 works and works fine.

I ve slightly used horns and new horns , the HETMAN 1 is good but dont last a long time, the HETMAN 2 is for me the good all around oil , 100 % synthétic, no gunk.

I dropp oil almost every evening before put the trumpet in the box and swab leadpipe and tuning slide and had since i do that no valve problems on any horn.

Callichio u3/9 ml, Super artist 40 ', Bergeron Yammie, Eterna and Couesnon flugel (Hetman 3 for this one ....) and so many horns i've selled to buy others including a 993 : for this one the Ultrapure was not for me (sticky valves and dont like the smelling probably not good with my chemistery...)

If that dont work good it's the time to give a good bath and clean the horn including the tubing between the valves very important as said before by an other member. (i use for that the leadpipe swab selled by a member of Th : very efficient , dont remember is name)


Thanks , i heard good things about Hetman 3 , i will order one from Thomann ,

Regards
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