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Horn reconditioning?



 
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acritzer
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Joined: 29 Nov 2009
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:10 am    Post subject: Horn reconditioning? Reply with quote

Does anyone know of a good person/place to send horns to for restoration? If so, is it worth it for anything more than aesthetics? Here's my story:
Started playing a cornet in 6th grade, piece of junk.
Dad (who didn't know anything about trumpets) went out and bought a trumpet for $300 out of the newspaper ads.
Turns out it was a Mt. Vernon Strad. serial #170XX
I get a hold of it as an ignorant middle school kid go and have it silver plated (those were the "cool" horns in school, silver).
I've played it ever since of course and it's had it's share of tough times. There's just a bit of valve leakage out of the 1st, and a bit more out of the 2nd.

Would love to have it back in original nickel silver and brass. Possible? Too dangerous messing with the finish anymore than has already been done? Worth it? Someone out there that restores horns like this?

Thanks.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out the DQ thread that is currently below this thread (for me)
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Check out the DQ thread that is currently below this thread (for me)


Looks good! I'll have to get in touch with ask him some questions.
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are you located? There are a lot of very skilled individuals who could work on your horn.

Tom
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acritzer
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cincinnati.
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is already silver plated I would leave it alone with regard to the finish. I would not trust anyone that claimed they could guarantee anything with regard to stripping the silver off with out either chemically or mechanically damaging the brass. Sure people can do it but you are really rolling the dice chemically stripping, reversing the electroplating process and buffing are all anything but precise and can leave a lot of variation material thickness and you can also experiencing pitting. Then their is the unpredictable aging of the brass due to heat,chemicals and the like.

I do not think anyone consider's silver plating a horn to be some Frankenstein, value destroying act or modification! It is fairly accepted and unless someone looked at the shop card they would never even know if it came from the OEM that way.

I would send the horn to Anderson's and get the valve rebuilt to better then new. Send a check for $360 and then wait for it to come home to you. They will bore and hone the piston bores to a nice new perfectly round size and then build up and hone the pistons to fit this new size tighter then Bach ever fit their pistons. The valve work is the most expensive part of the work and is never included in a horn restoration it is always a an "extra" charge.
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what many other have said as well...leave the finish alone, just not worth it. I'm not concerned that others might think it's not original, I just really love the two tone look that it used to have.

Will consider the valve work....also would want them to check that the slides are tight enough.
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Geodude
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Don Miles is in Cincinatti so you could probably just go see him without having to travel much or ship your horn.

Here are some of the usual suspects receiving good press here in TH for that kind of work (in no particular order):

Steve Winans - Dr. Valve - in the Chicago 'burbs
Charlie Melk - Charlies Brass Works - in the Milwaukee 'burbs
James Becker - Osmun - Boston 'burbs
Ron Pinc - also in Chicago 'burbs
Rich Ita - Brass Instrument Workshops - Atlanta 'burbs
Tom Green - Green's Buffing - Elkhart, IN
Josh Landress - Sam Ash - New York City
Mark Metzler - Metzler Brass - also in Elkhart
Robb Stewart - Arcadia, CA
Oberloh Woodwind & Brass Works - Seattle, WA

There are certainly other capable folks around but these folks' names pop up regularly as does DQ's. Ask
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance you have contact info for Don?
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wardsd
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can have the silver removed, but i would bring it to someone you can trust. A bad repairman can damage the horn removing the silver plate. I am a collector and have many one-of-a-kind instruments and there are only two people that I trust to restore them. They are Robb Stewart and Mark Metzler. Both have web pages (robbstewart.com and http://metzlerbrassrepair.com) and both pages have examples of repairs they have done. Unfortunately, they also both have wait lists of about 6 months for restorations. That is a testament to their demand for quality repairs. Mark is the cheaper of the two. You can't go wrong with either.

Steve
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ChopsGone
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want to recreate the old two-tone finish, the least invasive and most reversible way would be to have a good tech (wardsd mentioned two of the very best at lacquering) lacquer the parts that used to be lacquered - right over the silver plate. It might require a tinted lacquer to look right, in which case I'd vote for Mark (I believe Robb only uses clear lacquer). The silver-plated parts wouldn't look exactly like the old nickel-plated or nickel silver did, but maybe close enough to satisfy the urge.

Personally, I'd just leave the finish alone and worry about mechanical issues.
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it makes you feel any better, a lot of manufacturers offered horns with nickel-silver parts and if the customer wanted silver plate, silver plate is what they got.

Tom
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update for you...I met Don Miles today and he checked out my horn. He recommended a valve job, which I suspected, a bit of work on the 2nd slide and he can if course replace the first valve saddle with a Bach style for me. I plan to have this done and he's about 2-3 weeks out on being available.

Only thing that wasn't "nice" is he basically said Mt. Vernon it New York it's still just a Bach. Don't get me wrong I didn't want him to fawn over my horn, buy I also didn't want him saying, eh, just a
Bach. Ya know?

Anyway, I'll try to update again after it's all said and done.
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 for Mark Metzler. He's amazing!
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acritzer wrote:
Only thing that wasn't "nice" is he basically said Mt. Vernon it New York it's still just a Bach. Don't get me wrong I didn't want him to fawn over my horn, buy I also didn't want him saying, eh, just a
Bach. Ya know?...

I owned a '55 Mt. Vernon Strad for about 20 years and I concur - it wasn't any more special than my '76 Elkhart Strad. Both are great trumpets, but the MV wasn't "magical" like a lot of people think...
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what you're saying, but I agree with Dale. You'll have a lot of people saying that this horn is magic or that horn, there's nothing like it.

The fact is that there are a lot of nice horns out there, and when you find one that fits you, that's the one that's magical. It doesn't matter where it was made or when or by whom; it's your horn and it helps you do things that no other horn can.

Tom
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1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally understand what you guys are saying. I don't think my horn is magical. Glad I own it though. I know the standards of Bach can be hit or miss, but I was just surprised to hear him say...just a Bach... Kind of like he didn't give it a chance to be one of the good ones? No big deal, I'm sure if I could spend 5k on a new horn I'd find a whole nother world put there.

Oh and maybe I should say that it wasn't that he didn't hold Mt. Vernons in high regard...but more so the way he almost dismissed Bach in general.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's sort of how it goes. A lot of people love Bachs (me included, just like Vincent van Gopher), some don't, and some hate Bachs and bash 'em every chance they get. I'd assume Mr. Miles probably belongs to the middle group.


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