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Ultrasonic cleaning?



 
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riffi1
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:59 am    Post subject: Ultrasonic cleaning? Reply with quote

I saw an ultrasonic cleaning unit in my local electonics store recently. It is used for jewellery etc but is big enough for valves, mouthpieces, slides etc. Has anyone used one for this purpose? Any ideas on how it might affect lacquer finishes?

Thanks
Rod
PS Apologies for cross posting!
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Ed Lee
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Joined: 14 Aug 2009
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Location: Jackson NC 27845

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've a Branson ultrasounic unit here somewhere ... we've only unpacked about 1/3 of our boxes since moving here in July 2009. My Branson is big enough to clean mouthpieces but I don't think big enough for valves.
I never used it to even clean mouthpieces, only to clean dry India ink from tech pens (K&E LeRoy, Koh-i-noor Rapidograph, Mars-Staedler etc.) and the fluid used was just a drop of dish soap in a cup of water. For this it was ideal.

An engineering tech I know got one, and put his wife's antique pearl necklace in it and when he went to get it out all he found was a knotted string and the platinum clasp ... it dissolved the pearls.

The manufacturer(s) advise testing power level and fluid type to determine usefullness and accept no liability otherwise.

I don't know but suspect even present brass musical instrument manufacturers use different formulas in their lacquer ... thus beware.
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mrsemman
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Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: West Brookfield, MA

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed,

As I told riffi1 jfor the same question in the cornet/flugel forum, that I recently bought a 39 gallon unit. I was told that a solution of one half gallon of phosphoric acid and two tablespoons of liquid dish detergent (Dawn) to 39 gallons works real well. Although he does not use the heating component, unless he is trying to delacquer a horn, this solution works remarkably well.

The only other person I know that has one is Trent Austin, at his shop. Maybe he will render his opinion.

Here is the unit model I bought in action. http://youtu.be/oM7lFPPfsCE
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Bob Stevenson
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrasonic works by vibration (obviously!)...what is not immediately so obvious is that there is interaction between the bowl of the cleaner and whatever is being cleaned,...so, very soon after starting to use the unit the bowttom of the bowl looses it's shine due to the objects moving about during cleaning and marking the finish.

For this reason, it seem highly likely that laqueur would definately be damaged unless the instrument parts are put into a carrier which is also allowed to vibrate during the cleaning process. This is my course of action with all items and parts that i clean in my own small unit.
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hefferson
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my trumpets ultrasonically cleaned once a year. The repair man that I use is Merlin Grady (Cedar Falls, IA). He has a 90 gallon unit that you can have your entire horn cleaned in (Trumpet, Trombone and Tuba fully submerged). Any horn always comes back better than it ever was new. Since I am in his area I send all of my school instruments to him too and they always come back in incredible shape!

I have never had any negative experience with this process.
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veery715
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Location: Ithaca NY

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 1/2 gal. Branson unit and have cleaned valve psitons and parts, slide and mouthpieces. I have not had lacquer come off.
However, the hot bath I have used before or after will remove some old lacquers.
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Central Instrument Company in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio has an ultrasonic cleaning unit that can handle entire trumpets, trombones, and euphoniums. Instruments come out clean, inside and out, and I mean clean!

I take my school-owned band instruments there for periodic cleaning plus I have had my personal trumpets done.
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Lboretrumpets
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our 110 gallon unit (Omegasonics) hasn't messed anything up yet. We've used a mild mix of phosphoric acid (way more diluted than the phosphoric we used to use sans ultrasonic), and citric acid, which works great, isn't dangerous, and doesn't affect the environment. HOWEVER... you need to pay attention to power settings on horns with suspected red rot, it can 'finish the job' with those horns, especially on full power. FWIW. I think Jim Becker chimed in on a similar thread a few days back.
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