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Marching Beater Trumpet


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trumpetgopher
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:42 pm    Post subject: Marching Beater Trumpet Reply with quote

I'm actually a junior in a college band, but I've never bought a seperate "worse" trumpet to use on the field. Sadly enough, I've used my Bach Strad and I've paid for it a couple of times, both figuratively and literally (to get it fixed).

I just wanted to get a few suggestions on a GOOD, cheaper horn to use for marching band.
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:02 pm    Post subject: Marching Beater Trumpet Reply with quote

As usual, not enough info to give a definitive answer. How much do you want to spend. Does the horn need to be in silver? If lacquered, does the lacquer need to be in good shape? Do you want a model suggestion or are you going to go somewhere to try out trumpets? I am assuming that a used horn is OK.

All that said, I would try out the horn first or get a return privilege. In silver you could get several horns for about $300 - $500. Bach TR200S, Blessing ML-1 (maybe $500, but a good almost pro horn), Conn 22B (might have playable valves that are not 100%, but could be had in silver for under $400 and is a pro horn). In lacquer, an Olds Ambassador would work and would resell OK when done, or experiment with it by putting a different lead pipe on it, you might keep it. I like the ML-1 and think it is pro quality except for a few finish issues. E.g., the top valve caps have threads that are a little rough.

I'm sure there are others . . . . .
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Goldplate
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the finish doesn't matter I would go with the Olds Ambassador. They are very sturdy, inexpensive, and plentiful. I have a Blessing L1 (large bore version of the ML-1) and it is a pretty sturdy horn too, but the Ambassador seems like it could take more of a beating to me.
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trumpetgopher
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't really looking for a definitive answer. Just wanted to get a few ideas on what to look for. This helps a lot, and if anyone else has anymore suggestions I would appreciate it.

Practically speaking though, I'd like to get something good for no more than about $300 or so. And finish doesn't matter so long as it's not absolutely terrible. Something that looks alright and plays decently. I had gotten a tip elsewhere that an Olds Ambassador might be the way to go.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goldplate wrote:
If the finish doesn't matter I would go with the Olds Ambassador. They are very sturdy, inexpensive, and plentiful. I have a Blessing L1 (large bore version of the ML-1) and it is a pretty sturdy horn too, but the Ambassador seems like it could take more of a beating to me.

Yes.

This is possibly the perfect horn for this, all things being equal. Built like a tank. They don't make them like this anymore - because if they did, they would need to sell many new ones.

Seriously, it's one of the most common used horns out there, but they haven't been made in 30 years. If you have some options, look for one made between 1950-1965, I'd say. Read up at the Olds Central site.

http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds.htm

It's the ultimate beater horn - about as indestructible as a decent brass instrument gets. Bonus - they also play fairly well to quite well.

A few notes - it wouldn't hurt to also look for a Reynolds Medalist. It's basically the same horn, less well known. Sometimes it's cheaper, a bit. Of course, it's not like an Ambassador is expensive.

Another option would be an older Conn, which are also sturdy horns. Sadly, I don't know much about them, but many on this site do. I'm sure a few will chime in.
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connicalman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As with the Olds, so with the Conn.

Look for a CONNQUEST built prior to 1971. The model number is 77B.

Lighter than an Olds Ambassador, and 'only' a 0.438" bore, but bright and fun. Projects well. The one thing to remember is to maximize the efficiency of these responsive horns. Dial them in. Adjust the pads and corks to ALIGN the pistons with the valve ports. Easily done at home. Makes the horn sing.

This goes for the Conn Director, too, their base model.

With the Director, look for a Coprion bell. Push is as hard as you want - it won't crack a note!
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An early 60s Buescher Aristocrat would work for this. You can play them loud without the sound turning crappy, and they're pretty inexpensive.

Tom
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

King 601. Built strong and has a .463 bore so you can get some air through it on the field or street. Cheap too. And the valves are great.

I think I paid a little of 100 dollars for mine.
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KansasTrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
King 601. Built strong and has a .463 bore so you can get some air through it on the field or street. Cheap too. And the valves are great.

I think I paid a little of 100 dollars for mine.


I second this.

Infact, I have one of these that I have done a PVA o, cleaned and is ready to go that I would be willing to part with. PM me if your interested.

(hope this doesnt count for trying to sell a horn in the forum)
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Geodude
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just went through a similar search for my son who is about to start marching in high school. He ended up with a Kanstul made Besson 609 that he says plays very well. It is a bit brighter than his Strad and the springs are a bit stiffer but the price was right. I paid $75 for it and then spent a bit more for a tech to do a little dent work and give it an ultrasonic cleaning. The Kanstul-made Besson Internationals are supposed to be even better players but they are a but more money.

I imagine there are plenty of good Olds Ambassadors out there but my son's Besson has at least 40 years less wear and tear on it. I wanted something with less mileage since I was buying sight unseen. If it turns out he doesn't like it, he can sell it to an incoming freshman next summer for all or at least most of what we have into it, and then go hunt for something else. He'd probably have ended up with a Getzen Capri if we hadn't landed the horn he is using.

Happy hunting!

Barney
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The very best solution, for both you and your Strad, is to not march at all.

How performing "music" for tens of thousands of half-drunk people (who aren't listening anyhow) got married to slogging around on muddy, pot-marked fields, escapes my understanding . . . though I once did it too I must confess.

If you like blasting and jarring your chops though, have fun . . .
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Turner wrote:
The very best solution, for both you and your Strad, is to not march at all.
...slogging around on muddy, pot-marked fields...

I actually had the opposite experience with both my Strad and myself.

Nor did my schools have pot-marked fields. While there was a drug raid when I was a sophomore, the pot heads weren't allowed on the field to smoke.

The grounds keepers would never have allowed pockmarks either since both our band and our football team were tops in the state for my highschool years.
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it does notn eed to be Silver the King 601 is fantastic. I think their is one on Ebay right now at $99. They are not a dime a dozen though so the King Cleveland and King Tempo 600 are also good for matching band. COnn had their 16B I think it is that they intended for marching but it is not nearly as good as the King 601! If I recall properly the King 601 is .462 bore and really opens up the horn compared to the 600 model. They will play loud all day long with out any more real effort then your Bach they do play differently mind you but no more difficult. SOme horns are a pain to play ffff on.

If you want to go new and in silver the Kanstul Col 103 is priced and made with the Marching Band market in mind so you can pick them up for about $1080 new if you shop around used for less then that. They are a .470 bore horn and sound fantastic again nothing like you Bach but fantastic all the same! It is probably the single best horn on the market for Marching Band and is also a good all around horn. I can guarantee you will find reasons to use it outside of marching band.

The Reynolds Medalist with the diagonal WIng Strut style bracing that was used ont hem once Olds bought them are fantastic all around horns. Not as purpose built for marching band as the other models but still built like a tank, and a great all around horn. They sound almost identical to a Olds Mendez Trumpet in stock trim. Not nearly as bright as most Marching Band horns are but they project like mad and play ffff all day long with no problem. If you do not like the blow Bach leadpipes work great on them especially the 7,43,44. You can find these in "Like New" condition on ebay for under $400 and cosmetically rough but mechanically sound from anything from $60-$150 with normal stuff like lacquer coming off or needing a new leadpipe due to red-rot etc.... I own two of them both where about 85-95% in the finish and both needed leadpipe's due to red rot. No dents minor dings and I am pretty sure I got one for $68 and one for $89 or their about......One of them if not for the red rot leadpipe could have passed for NOS. People are catching on though to how fantastic they sound and the price is slowly climbing on them! They have that classic French Besson sound and are darker sounding then their Olds Ambassador Brother's and I am sure it is the different bracing and all the nickel trim that makes the difference! For the money though becasue they project so well, are easy to play and can do ffff all day with out craking up and they are built pretty tough I think they would work well even if not ideal!
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davidkoch
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Tom: I agree and disagree. Marching band was quite a fun time for me, I don't regret doing it at all as I made some friends. However my overall playing would take a dive when marching season rolled around. I was really beat up.

Would I do it if I were offered a marching gig for a the next 4 months, No.

Would I go back and do it again? Absolutely.
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HornnOOb
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if "Conn Director" horns are any good, but there is one or two on either Goodwill.com or Oodle.com, for about $20.00 There is also a Reynolds and a Olds Ambasador for under $30.00.

Might be worth buying a beater and fixing it up to be a better beater?
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HornnOOb
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

davidkoch wrote:
To Tom: I agree and disagree. Marching band was quite a fun time for me, I don't regret doing it at all as I made some friends. However my overall playing would take a dive when marching season rolled around. I was really beat up.

Would I do it if I were offered a marching gig for a the next 4 months, No.

Would I go back and do it again? Absolutely.


I was in marching band as well. It was just OK for me. Had some grins but would I do it again? Probably not. I would have probably been happier in Concert Band or Orchestra. Although, there was this one babearooski girl drummer in marching band who had the hots for me - and I her. Sadly, nothing ever developed from the mutual hotness . . . . .
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1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
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Denis Wick 1C Heavytop
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trumpetgopher
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as doing the marching band thing goes, I enjoy doing it alright, but I will admit that I much prefer small ensembles and concert band music.

However, marching band is kind of a big deal at my school, and for my degree is effectively a requirement. We have a unique and positive situation here as well through cooperation between the athletic and music department as well as with the administration. In short, in my situation, marching band isn't really a negative thing as it is in some places.
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trumpetgopher
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, thanks for all of the advice. It really kind of gives me a roadmap to finding a decent horn for marching season this year. I've got a little under a month to find something that I like, so wish me luck. Thanks again!
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Marching Beater Trumpet Reply with quote

trumpetgopher wrote:
I'm actually a junior in a college band, but I've never bought a seperate "worse" trumpet to use on the field. Sadly enough, I've used my Bach Strad and I've paid for it a couple of times, both figuratively and literally (to get it fixed).

I just wanted to get a few suggestions on a GOOD, cheaper horn to use for marching band.


MF Horn (an ST-302 or maybe an ST-307).

These horns project great, have easier upper registers, and unlike the CG Benge or CG Selmer which also would make a good marching band horn, the MF Horns are pretty sturdy with thicker metal than the CG horns.

I remember in one of the old Holton ads, Maynard talked about his trumpet (in the case) falling down an escalator at an airport, without receiving any damage. Okay, not exactly an endorsement of the playing and sound qualities of a trumpet, but I think it goes to show how good the horn would be on the marching field!

Best wishes,

John Mohan

P.S. For Grins & Gibbles, here's a picture of me in High School with my MF Horn:

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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

King 601. I am a "just retired" school band director and the King 601 can't be beat for sound and durability if you are looking for an inexpensive horn. As to marching band, I think it is great for those who enjoy the venue and comradeship among players. I still enjoy playing in my college alumni band after 40 years! (Ohio University Marching 110)

That's a great newspaper photo of John Mohan!
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