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tiago.pt
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Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 24
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 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: Modify? Or buy another? Bach material inside |
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Hi folks,
I have a question and maybe someone with more experience can help.
I need to change the leadpipe of my bach 43. I have the reverse sistem.
I want to put a standard pipe but i have to change the reverse sistem to normal.
So iīm going to cut the upper slide tuning to normal and fit a standard pipe. (is cheaper than buying a new normal tuning slide!)
But this sounds problematic for me... Is the cheapest way (300 euros!) but i am afraid that the result may not be good...
Should i buy a used Bach with no modifications and with a standard leadpipe??
please help 
Thanks! |
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Capt.Kirk
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Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Wow that is a good question and one that does not come up often.
How is the rest of the horn? DO you need a new horn?
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tiago.pt
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Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Well my trumpet is in good shape, recent 639XXX, it just have some waste marks in the hands area...
My dilema, is: despite this good shape, the changing of the caracteristics of the trumpet (leadpipe/reverse to normal) is going to be a good thing or is going to destroy the caracteristics of the trumpet?
Iīm a bit hesitant because i can play with this trumpet, iīm not going to change because itīs completly bad, no, for example, i play the Hindemith Sonata and i like it, the question is that in the high register i dont feel relaxed and sometimes i could be enjoying the piece and instead is getting more and more phisical so is i a it hard...
I have a cousin that works in a instrument repair shop and he said that everyone preferīs the 25 standard leadpipe to a 25 LR leadpipe...
So should i wait a few months and see what happens or change the sistem right now and spent about 400/500$?
A few more bucks and i can buy a used Bach 37 with standard pipe...
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dr-pepp
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Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 541
Location: Austin TX
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: |
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In addition to having a reversed leadpipe, your Bach most likely has a lightweight body. I'm sure that many players that want a reversed leadpipe might also want a lightweight body, but Bach combines these two changes on the LR180S43 and LR180S37, so you get two variable changes at the same time.
Just be aware that if you change your leadpipe/tuning slide to a traditional style, you still have a lightweight body horn. If you can, you might want to try out some lightweight and standard weight Bachs before you tinker with your tuning slide.
You may decide you want a standard weight body with a traditional tuning slide set up; in which case you can't achieve with modifications to your current horn.
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cheiden
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I can't believe that it's cheaper to modify a reverse tuning slide into a regular one then it is to but a new one. Also I wouldn't assume that going to a standard 25 pipe is your only option. The 43 bell work quite well with a standard 43 pipe.
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Crazy Finn
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sounds7
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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He is coming from a reverse lead pipe which means he will need a different tuning crook or will need to have his current one modified. Personally, I would buy a different horn unless yours is in mint condition. You could sell yours to recoup some of the money. Also before you do this I would play on a horn like the one your cousin says "everyone" prefers and compare it to your horn to see if YOU prefer it.
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lipshurt
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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You need to get the right inner and outer upper tubes. Probably need to get both. Get them in standard weight probably if you are going with a standard 25 pipe.
Unsolder the outer tube that is attached to your slide and replace with the inner tube. Don't solder it just yet, just snap it together. Then remove the old lead pipe and wipe all the solder from the braces that were just unsoldered.
Place the new pipe where the old one was. Hopefully it has a tube on the end which will make things easier, but if it does not snap the tube onto the end of the pipe.
Wrap wire around the pipe and braces at all the brace points, lining everything up nicely and then tighten pretty tight by twisting the wire.
Solder everything together with the slide inserted about 1/2 inch from all the way in. Push it all the way in and then slide it out a bit without letting anything shift. The solder it all back together.
This will take an hour the first time, and ten minutes after you get good at it from being hooked on doing your own modifications:)
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oliver king
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Try before you buy ... or modifiy.
Today - I'd buy a new horn before modifying. I've a modified horn and a Frankenhorn that I enjoy very much. While I enjoy both horns - I think I got lucky on the modification. I sometimes wish I had a stock Olds Super (the horn I used for the donor horn for my Frankenhorn project). To each their own. |
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dbacon
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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DB
Last edited by dbacon on Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:25 am Post subject: |
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It's been said before, any modified horn looses value and is much harder to sell (you spend more money on it, but will get less when selling).
Though not difficult, this job (reversed to "normal") will be visible afterwards if you don't go for a re-finish. I've only ever advised to do similar modifications in case of seriously rotted pipes and main slides that had to be replaced anyway.
If you're not 100% sure you want to keep it after modifying, I'd sell your trumpet as it is and look for one you like better.
MvW. |
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tiago.pt
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Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your answers!
@lipshurt
I appreciate your post but i dont have any experience in welding... And itīs precision job so i rather do to a repair shop or someone i know that it as experience... One day i will try to do this stuff... but not in a 2000 dollars trumpet 
@dr-pepp
Woww i never heard anywere that... My trumpet could be lightwight?? I thought it was only the * bells who were lightwight... This weight "thing" really as influence in the sound right? Although i think mine is standard weight because is heavier than many trumpets i played...
@cheiden
Its cheaper but not that cheaper... And can be more expensive if the modifications went wrong...
I dont only consider the 25 standard, i never tried a different leadpipe so went i try i can be more concrete.
@Crazy Finn
In Portugal i get the leadpipe for +- 150, the tuning slide +- 150, hand work (depending the place) 100... Its more than 300...
@Sounds7,Maarten van Weverwijk,dbacon, oliver king
Yes, iīm considering selling... Mine is not mint but is in good condition...
The problem is that i cant afford a new one now and most deals on ebay dont sound very good to me... very old trumpets, buying wihout trying.. hmmm...
My sound is getting better in the trumpet but really botherīs me is that i need to make an additional efford in the high register and is always entering my mind that maybe i could make that better if i do the modifications... |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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The stock LR180 reverse-leadpipe horn by definition is a lightweight body with standard weight leadpipe and bell.
http://www.bachloyalist.com/trumpet/trumpet_models.htm
MouthpieceExpress.com sells raw brass leadpipes for ~$120USD and tuning slides for ~$200USD. They also make a gaget that allows you to try them with no soldering. This allows you try try different combinations and return the parts you don't like.
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oliver king
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Over a year ago, I was set to sell one of my horns. Based on what I'd been doing, the horn just didn't work for me. It was too tight yada yada yada. I took lessons from a teacher with a different perspective and ... everything is different.
You said you're getting better on your horn - but not happy about the effort to play higher. Not to send you out on a safari or suggest you don't know what's right for you ... but - maybe a different mouthpiece? |
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plankowner110
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| tiago.pt wrote: |
My sound is getting better in the trumpet but really botherīs me is that i need to make an additional effort in the high register and is always entering my mind that maybe i could make that better if i do the modifications... |
I would strongly suggest that you NOT modify your trumpet. Your trumpet should play fine in the high register as it is. You probably just need a mouthpiece more suitable to the type of playing you want to do, and that is a LOT cheaper than making major changes to a Bach trumpet. Good luck.
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B4player
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | plankowner110
Posted: 27 Dec 2011 03:46 Post subject:
tiago.pt wrote:
My sound is getting better in the trumpet but really botherīs me is that i need to make an additional effort in the high register and is always entering my mind that maybe i could make that better if i do the modifications...
I would strongly suggest that you NOT modify your trumpet. Your trumpet should play fine in the high register as it is. You probably just need a mouthpiece more suitable to the type of playing you want to do, and that is a LOT cheaper than making major changes to a Bach trumpet. Good luck. |
A VERY BIG +1
I am all for doing custom mods but this doesn't make any sense to me. There are cheaper things to try first. Mouthpiece, gap, tension in the horn, rouge solder globs, brace placement and many other things. Maybe play a standard 43 first to make sure that's what you want. |
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | My sound is getting better in the trumpet but really botherīs me is that i need to make an additional effort in the high register and is always entering my mind that maybe i could make that better if i do the modifications... |
This may not be a horn issue. It can take years of dedicated and correct practice to play in a relaxed and fairly effortless way. Sorry, but it's true. It might be the horn, but really... there's lots of other places to check out first.
An LR Bach isn't too stuffy, generally. Effort often comes using being too tense and not relaxing and opening up.
Do you take lessons? Do you have a teacher? Do you work on being relaxed and playing with less effort?
| Quote: | | I am all for doing custom mods but this doesn't make any sense to me. There are cheaper things to try first. Mouthpiece, gap, tension in the horn, rouge solder globs, brace placement and many other things. Maybe play a standard 43 first to make sure that's what you want. |
Yeah, definitely.
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Lboretrumpets
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| plankowner110 wrote: | | You probably just need a mouthpiece more suitable to the type of playing you want to do, and that is a LOT cheaper than making major changes to a Bach trumpet. Good luck. |
I wouldn't say that changing a lead pipe is a really major change... perhaps for the blow, it is, but as far as the actual work... if you're competent with a torch, you should be done within 40 minutes. Also, @ Martin... spot plating is a viable and easily done option that leaves no trace of the repair. As the horn is in the 600K range, the value is not going to be beyond what a used Strad sells for. If it's been modded with Bach parts... no big deal, the horn is in a modified configuration that you can probably order from Conn_Selmer. Too much is made of modding an instrument... these horns are mass produced for the general public, and a lot of the time, they're horns you grow up with and into. Your tastes may change over time; why not also your playing style and how you approach the instrument? A horn that is your Holy Grail this year could totally be the opposite next year, based on how you progress and develop. At that point, changing parts, and not the entire horn, is a logical choice. Sell it? It's just a lead pipe change.
@ tiago... are you looking to have more resistance or less?
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tiago.pt
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:42 am Post subject: |
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Hi guys!
Sorry for the long absence i was without internet...
Iīm practicing more and more, i always practiced everyday day at leat 2/3 hours, but now iīm practicing more 
Iīm having more results, this last week iīve done wind orchestra work and i could test the Bb Bach 43. And i could say that till high C the trumpet sounds if i use really a lot of air and blow intense...
Iīm another words, if i want to play high notes piano is really difficult, but i would play them loud they come out with ring...
I`m having results but i still have doubts till the Bb leadpipe... Perhaps the best way is trying a Bb 37 with a normal leadpipe!
Hereīs a solo i played this week, but not this octave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Xs8S6SjXI
Checkout minute 2:01
Thanks! |
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Manuel de los Campos
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:20 am Post subject: huh? |
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| tiago.pt wrote: |
A few more bucks and i can buy a used Bach 37 with standard pipe...
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So, whāt is the actual problem?
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