| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Bad Luck Lux
Regular Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Tucson, Az
|
 Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: Trumpet Range Developement |
 |
|
Hello,
Just wondering how I can improve my trumpet range. I am a senior in High School in Tucson, Arizona and I plan to march in the pride of Arizona Marching Band at the University of Arizona. Although I'll be a rookie next year, I still plan to aim for lead player status, the highest note I can hit consistently (so far) is an F above the staff. I wanna' reach that double C by next year. So, what are your tips and tricks? Excercises and Methods? Please do tell.
Much Regards,
_________________
Jacob "Lux" Rose - Jazz Trumpet
~Holton - ST550S MF "Admiral"
~Holton - T602 (1997) Student Horn
~Jupiter Flugel - SFH-746
~Yamaha Signature Series - Bobby Shew "Lead"
~Yamaha Signature Series - Eric Miyashiro
~Bach 3C (Gold Plated) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
iWinland
Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 136
Location: Columbus, OH
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well their are many different approaches to expanding the high range. I would recommend finding a teacher who can do what you want to do... and lots of practice both with your ear and on the horn.
Good Luck
_________________
Ike |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
royjohn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2272
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: Trumpet range development |
|
|
Hello Bad Luck Lux,
You wrote:
| Quote: | | the highest note I can hit consistently (so far) is an F above the staff. |
I hope and trust that you're talking about the F three ledger lines and a space over the [treble] staff, which is just a fifth from where you want to go.
IDK if it is realistic to try for lead in freshman year from where you are now, since you would have to have the notes for an hour or so [I guess] and play in that range for a whole gig, rather than just be able to "hit" the notes at the end of one chart. As a soph or upperclassman, it will depend on your competition and who works harder and smarter.
You probably should see what is really going to be required. I'd guess it is a lot of F's and G's, but not sustained screaming over that, but then, it depends on the band. I'm just going by discussions about lead playing here, where the pro lead guys (and that's not me) say a good G over high C is necessary, but not necessarily anything over that.
I'd be against just focusing on high range alone, as too many things can go wrong and screw up your playing when you focus on this and ignore other aspects of playing. If you practice intelligently and work up to an hour or two a day (more if you are really dedicated and can find the time without flunking out), resting as much as you play, and do some high playing every day, and make some of it soft playing up there, I think the range will come if your embouchure is decent and doesn't need work. If you've been improving steadily when you practice consistently, you can expect that if you work at it, that improvement will continue.
You need a good structured practice routine designed by a teacher or consultant if you really want to progress. I hope you have someone to help you and a good routine.
I'm a comeback player and will probably die before I get through Arban's the third or fourth time, but I am working on becoming an all around musician who can play in all ranges with good tone and interpretation, flexibility, velocity, double and triple tonguing, etc. To play the "test pieces" laid out by Arban and Clarke, you need to be a complete player and you can't just mash the mouthpiece onto your face and blow your guts out and hope for the best. Once you can play that stuff, as Clifford Brown could, you are fully developed as a player and can tackle anything.
Blowing for range only can leave you with bad habits like too much mpc pressure and also with an ability to "hit" the notes up there, but not much ability to use them flexibly and with velocity in all dynamic ranges. That said, if that is what you want, there are lots of discussions here on various methods to get it, including "High C in 37 Weeks" and suchlike. Just do a search on this forum and do a little reading. Trumpet players need to get educated rather than taking any stupid advice they find in a forum <BG>. You need to know something about: tongue arch, air and breath support, lip compression and embouchure motion for starters. what these terms mean and how you would use them in technique.
If you are going to do this (range at all costs practice), become familiar first with the symptoms of embouchure overuse syndrome, as it is a very real risk for hot head youngsters who do not have a sense of their own limitations and think that rest is for sissies.
One thing that has helped me is playing the D/Eb trumpet, so I can play things up a fourth without having to play whole pieces up an octave, which can put you in a range where you can't manage all the high notes or tire you out quick. I'm not saying get an Eb, but transpose stuff up an tone, two tones, a third, etc., or copy your favorite stuff in higher keys. That way you can get used to playing up there rather than just jamming the mpc into your chops to get to the top of an arpeggio.
If you don't already have a lead piece, I would do some studying on what might work for you. If you don't have worries about needing an orchestral tone in your highest octave (and you don't in a marching band, right?) a little brighter tone will just let you cut through and give you some help staying up there. I just wouldn't get too radical at first, until I saw how I took to shallow cups.
You can use a PETE or a substitute (like a button on a string) or do the pencil exercise, but if you use these short cut muscle builders, do the exercise before bed after the day's playing and be alert because if you play a lot, adding them may be too much. You might have to do them every other day or even forgo them entirely. If you aren't fresh and feel pooped, take a day off or a light day. Never play on tired chops, you will be practicing bad habits instead of good ones.
Oh, and never forget to hug your Mom every time you come home . . . but that's enough advice from a broken down old hack. <LOL>
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bad Luck Lux
Regular Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Tucson, Az
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Royjohn. Thanks a bunch for all your input on the matter. I really do appreciate it and it helps alot. I really did enjoy reading what you had to say. I'll definetely take EVERYTHING you had to say into consideration (Including the bit about my mom) I believe everything you have to say 100%. And yes, I'm talking about the F three ledger lines above.
_________________
Jacob "Lux" Rose - Jazz Trumpet
~Holton - ST550S MF "Admiral"
~Holton - T602 (1997) Student Horn
~Jupiter Flugel - SFH-746
~Yamaha Signature Series - Bobby Shew "Lead"
~Yamaha Signature Series - Eric Miyashiro
~Bach 3C (Gold Plated) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
royjohn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2272
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:05 pm Post subject: Trumpet range development |
|
|
Hi again, BLL,
Thanks for the compliments . . . . I'm interested to see what other advice you get, too. You wrote:
| Quote: | | And yes, I'm talking about the F three ledger lines above. |
I figured as much . . . . but we had somebody calling high C (two ledger lines) "double C" a couple of days ago, so I had to check. If it had been top line F I would have written a different post, maybe starting "bwah-hah-hah."
Seriously, though, if you go to:
http://abel.hive.no/trompet/practice/gekker/
you can see a "summer practice" routine put together by Chris Gekker, a monster player who is probably in the top five living players. Here are some more comments by him on a practice routine:
http://lawrence.edu/conservatory/dept/brass/studio_trumpet/practice.shtml
Now I don't do all this, and I wouldn't even tell you to, but it will give you a sense of what it takes to be the absolute best in the world. I think a guy who wanted an MM and a DMA and then wanted to take Phil Smith's job <LOL> would need this practice routine. If you are not looking to be an orchestral player, you probably wouldn't need ALL the transposition work. There is some good technique stuff in here. Just some stuff to think about. Good luck in your journey!
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Roberts-K
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posts: 435
Location: Chattanooga,TN
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:06 pm Post subject: Trumpet Range Developement |
|
|
I would just warn you that usually there is a pecking order already established. You are going to be the "newby" freshman, and there are upperclassmen that have been in the program for a few years. Don't be discouraged if you are not put into a lead role your first year. Sometimes that is just they way it is until they get comfortable with your skills. Now, if you are a great improviser...welcome aboard! I had a solid high G as a freshman and now I have an A! That's been 30 years...so I can't help you, I'm trying to help me!
_________________
2010 Lawler 25th C7 XL
Lalwer LF-1 Flugel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pete Anderson
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 489
Location: Boston, MA
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A teacher of mine would say, "if you want to be able to play high notes, just play a lot of high notes!" Play Arbans up an octave, etc. Make sure to balance it out with lower/middle register and flexibility stuff so you don't screw your chops up.
Obtaining a double C is not at the top of my priority list, but if it was, that's probably what I'd do.
You also might want to look into the Cat Anderson "20 minute G" exercise.
http://brassmusician.com/cat-andersons-20-minute-g-exercise/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pops
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 2039
Location: Dallas (Grand Prairie), Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have taught thousands of people to improve their range.
There are steps in doing this right.
The 1st step is to add to the workload.
Play your Highest note a 10 times a day (C,D,E,F,...your highest note)
20 times for a note under
30 times for 2 notes under
The next week the numbers are
20 for highest note
30 for 1 note under
40 for 2 notes under
Until it is 100 times for the highest note
110 for 1 note under
120 for 2 notes under
By now it is easy to go to the next note. The next note is between 5% and 10% more lip compression NOT all out.
Yes this is time consuming but it leads to the endurance and control needed to USE the range. Just doing isometrics and rushing to add notes won't give any control or endurance.
_________________
Clint 'Pops' McLaughlin
You can always Google me.
50 years Teaching. Teaching and writing trumpet books is ALL I do.
7,000 pages of free music. Trumpet Books, Skype Lessons: www.BbTrumpet.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Redhothorn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2001
Posts: 1173
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Claude Gordon's Systematic Approach has been my "teacher" for the past 41 years. Sure, I had well meaning band directors and well meaning advice from peers; however, at the end of the day ... I had to learn to play trumpet correctly alone through a lot of Blood, Sweat & Tears in the woodshed.
My two cents:
(1) Tone and sound should be your first priority regardless of your range.
(2) The high and low range will come with adequate and correct practice ... build do not destroy your chops. Rest as much as your play.
(3) I learned a lot from asking questions; reading this forum and deciphering what would work for ME as an individual.
(4) Range is about air compression and air speed ... holding the note for extended periods of time ... (air volume)
(5) Working your chops by practicing very softly teaches you control and how to work your air ... besides, Herbert L. Clarke says to do it so I do what he says (LOL)
In utilizing Claude Gordon's book ... you are also getting Clarke Technical Studies; Charles Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities, Walter L. Smith Lip Flexibilities; Saint Jacombs Grand Method etc.
I have an everyday dependable double b and can play up to the double C ... though not with the authority and consistently that will come in time.
Along with Louis Maggio, Claude Gordon, Arturo Sandoval and others ... I too believe that pedal tones are quite helpful.
Watching YouTube.com videos of Lynn Nicholson, Maynard, Bill Chase etc. etc. can be quite educational if you "study" their posture, body alignment, head positioning, neck positioning, shoulders, etc. etc. Lynn says he can add an octave to my range as soon as I get a web cam.
Get some quality lessons from Lynn Nicholson, Adam Rapa etc. via Web Cam (Skype) etc. if you can ... also, watch those YouTube Videos and learn what you can by watching.
If I am going to invest in a trumpet lesson (and it has not happened yet) ... I will spend my money with someone who can actually play and demonstrate what I want to learn. None of my earlier band directors and local trumpet experts had any abnormal range ... so, I didn't listen to much of what they said regarding a Double C type range.
If you want to order any of the trumpet books, please order them from my website (yeah, I like mo money too).
Make a goal, make a plan and stick to your plan - Ed Coan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jlwalker20
Regular Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here are some notes from my 12 seasons of marching band (4 high school, 6 drum corps, 2 college):
1. Double C is not particularly useful in an ensemble playing setting - and getting up to it is a long journey. It is a note that, unless you're a freak of nature, really doesn't speak great on the horn, and is featured more in solo work. That being said, expanding your range is great, but I would focus on expanding the quantity (number of notes you can play) and QUALITY. I'm of the belief that a weak Double C is not as impressive as a quality G or A that really speaks in the ensemble. I can play C's, D's, and E's, but I don't really do it.
2. If you can get up to a G or A with great quality of sound, consistency, slotting, you will be a hot commodity. I walked into my college marching band with very consistent A's and was given the "green light" to play what I wanted. Some directors do it, some don't. I was not held back by my rookie status whatsoever, because I could play.
3. Pops nailed it on the head for me - improving your upper register work is done best by just simply playing high, but also being cognizant that you're using good technique. Typically, I will play a lick over and over and really solidify the phrase. At the end of each rep, I will release the last note, then immediately drop to the lower octaves of the horn to make sure my tone quality is maintained across octaves. This includes playing up to a high G, playing it with quality, then dropping to G on the staff, and then to G below the staff, etc.
4. Range development is about air speed. Pinching your lips (and driving the horn into your face) will give some desired result but is really, really bad for your playing. Using your body to accelerate your air is much better, in my opinion. The less strain you put on your lips, the more they will hold up, and they longer you'll be able to play. If you want to play a 4 hour gig (football gameday?) and have a solid double G at the end of the day, you will have to find a way to effectively use your air, and not rely on your face.
4a. In order to develop good air use, check out Breathing Gym. It is the one widely-held technique program I actually subscribe to. I don't care much for trumpet technique books, methods, etc. I was not a music major in college, I play for fun, and I teach for fun.
4b. Part of playing high and relying on air is doing it when your chops are blown. Some of my best developmental playing occurred after an 8 hour playing day during drum corps. I would walk off on my own after warm down and play in the upper register of the horn because I knew I could not rely on my lips - I HAD to use my air to get the notes to come out. This is a dangerous thing to do if you're not mature enough to recognize when you're hurting yourself and doing damage rather than being productive.
Sorry for the novel. I hope this helps. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
roynj
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 2065
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Trumpet Range Developement |
|
|
| Bad Luck Lux wrote: | Hello,
Just wondering how I can improve my trumpet range. I am a senior in High School in Tucson, Arizona and I plan to march in the pride of Arizona Marching Band at the University of Arizona. Although I'll be a rookie next year, I still plan to aim for lead player status, the highest note I can hit consistently (so far) is an F above the staff. I wanna' reach that double C by next year. So, what are your tips and tricks? Excercises and Methods? Please do tell.
Much Regards, |
I really do wish you the best on this plan, but I must share with you that as an entering freshman, you will be up against the established upper classmen who are much better players. Also playing lead does require high note chops, but it also requires leadership, timing, phrasing, and dead-on accuracy. My suggestion would be to first talk with the band director and let him know that you would be proud to play in any opening they may need covered, and see what he tells you about the audition process. I'm sure you will make it into the band, but really any spot is a good one to have and the director wants team players. Good luck with it. As for range building tips and techniques, take a look at this forum and see if you can pick up some pointers. If you can reliably play high F, I'd say you have more than enough chops to play any chart in the marching band rep. Don't worry about it and have as much fun as possible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tim.Wilson
New Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| they way i worked up my upper register just practice octave slurs... start on middle C and slur up to high C then middle C#-high C# so on and so forth and that really help me tons |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sauer
Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 210
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I would say expand your range in both directions. Not only up, but down as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jbptucson
Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Tucson, AZ
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Lux,
I wish you luck in you endeavor and the replies are all very good, IMHO. I am in Tucson so if you want someone to listen to you or recommend a teacher, I can help out. I have quite a few resources. I don't charge as I am an amateur. If I can't help, I would recommend some people here in town for you.
I do believe you need to have a teacher for this, because as it was said, you very well can hurt yourself.
be well!
Jeff
_________________
Jeff Parfenchuck |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To the OP:
I know you're focused on range but I can assure you that a great many young players think that range is their biggest weakness but it's not. Save yourself a lot of grief and look up a few pro teachers with just a single lesson in mind. Have them give you a serious review of where you are at with your playing and where best to focus your efforts.
With all due respect, I'm a somewhat older player now and I meet plenty of young players who play high in practice, but when they get a lead part and the downbeat falls all of their other shortcomings become really really obvious. By some accounting you are often judged not by your strengths but by your weaknesses. If you already have a reasonable F focus on strengthening that and making sure your tone, technique and musicality are just as stong.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
