Using different mouthpieces

BAMBAM25LR · Veteran Member Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 257 Location: NC

I have been working to improve my playing in the upper register. As usual I am not working to increase my range as much as to improve what I can do with what I already have.

I do lots of Arban interval studies +2 octave blues and major scales. This has helped me more than other things I have tried in the past.

Music that used to make me see brass gnats is getting much easier for me to play. I am much more relaxed and play more musically above the staff. I am also able to get f's and g's abov high c more consistently in the practice room. Some days they speak. Somes days they don't but they are happening much frequently now. I got close to an A but it was very squirrely and want to dance between an A and a g.

I do have something funny that has seemed to help as well. I will take each mouthpiece in my case and play 2 octave scales or blues scales while focusing on using the same physical approach each time. Once I go back to the 3c everything just seems to click. Last night during my warm before rehearsal I was having some troubles above the staff. I played a 2 octave c blues scale on each mouthpiece. After that notes above the staff were fairly easy. Up to an A above the staff I could tell no difference in the effort needed than playing an A on the staff. After that it required a little more effort to be accurate. The D above high c at the end of Eternal Fathers was no trouble to hold for as long as the conductor held his baton up. I was the only one covering first and my section leader even asked if I had any gonads left after the baton was lowered. What he didn't know is that it was easy for the first time.

Am I on to something with playing my full range on a variety of mouthpieces? Is it training me to take the correct physical approach to playing notes above the staff or have I lost my mind?
My stable of mouthpieces includes a bach megatone 3b,3c,1d,standard 3c, kelly5c,Shilcke14a4a, Marcinkiewicz e9 and a CG3. I also played around with a 7d that was loaned to me last week.
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Richard III · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:51 am Post subject:

I've noticed exactly the same thing. Is it good or bad? Will it lead to long term issues? Don't know. But it is interesting.
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connicalman · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:03 am Post subject:

The B.E. peeps do various embrochure gymnastics.

I've never thrown the entire arsenal at it, but I do find that playing a flugel for 10 or 15 minutes helps extend my practice time with my trumpet.

Also, I use a cornet exclusively one practice per week, as playing on a V deep bowl instead of a C cup seems to loosen my lips and tighten my chops.

FWIW, coming 'home' to the standby trumpet mpc always feels good.
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Mark Curry · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1058

JonathanM · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:25 am Post subject:

Interesting thread. I recall one respected teacher writing that one should not use mouthpieces of differing sizes - it would hurt ones chops.

Didn't seem to both Maynard Ferguson too much; trombone to trumpet is a fair jump.

Roger Ingram, if I recall, advocates as small a mouthpiece as you can handle for upper range, larger for the lower, fuller range (that's worked well for me).

I'm greatly enjoying work with a bass trumpet (trombone mouthpiece) for the same benefit of BamBam. In weight lifting (and the lips do work with muscle), diversity of exercise is recommended; I think diversity helps us with the trumpet as well.
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connicalman · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:58 am Post subject:

I agree with the OP's experimental nature. Have done similar and got good, bad, and ugly results. Sometimes it takes a few days to catch up with me. In retrospect, first thing I'd emphasize as a suggestion to others is to start and finish on the same stand-by, familiar, 'home-base' set-up.

Second things is that I use the same maker's same size & rim for trumpet, cornet and flugel. All that I vary on the mpc is the cup and bore. This reduces the scope of variety, but so far so good.

Trombone? That might hve a little bigger 'piece than the old Schilke 20 I've retired.

Maybe next year.
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study888 · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:24 am Post subject: Using differant mouthpieces

Hello,if you can borrow one. Try a Kanstul Claude Gordan CG3 Cornet mouthpiece. With your Cornet to Trumpet mouthpiece adapter.

This Kanstul modified Del Staiger rim/med. cup depth/ with excellent lip support. Might be what you are looking for. Same cup depth of Bach 3C,inner edge rim is rounded,will not cut into lips. Rim bite/Alpha angle/ like the Bach 3C. The higher alpha angle makes it fell smaller on the lips.

If You like this Cornet Mouthpiece. Kanstul may can make you this same rim/cup in a Trumpet mouthpiece. A lot of may,ifs and buts though.

If Kanstul's Mouthpiece maker would make this modified Del Staiger rim in a 16.00 or 16.20 MM rim size for Trumpet and Cornet. I believe it would be a overnight sucess.

(Note) that the CG3 Kanstul Trumpet mouthpiece does not have the same modified Del Staiger rim that is on the Cornet CG3 mouthpiece. Just some thoughts. Good luck

BAMBAM25LR · Veteran Member Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 257 Location: NC

BAMBAM25LR · Veteran Member Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 257 Location: NC

Yesterday before work I played through the major scales and interval studies in the Arban book while using the metronome. I think using the metronome on the interval studies helps to develop real world playable accuracy. I also did 2 octave blues scales using each piece in the bag followed by various other exercises in the Arban to cover all of the facets of playing that I can think of.
This morning after work I played a few scales and played a very effortless 3octave g scale and held the g above high c for 4 counts. I did this three times sounding like a guy that can really play up there before the tone started to suffer. After the 5th or 6th attempt I was no longer able to play up to the g. It shows that on one hand I am doing smething right but still have not figured it out completely. Anyway. WOO HOO! 2 steps forward and one step back might take a while but I am going to get there! For the longest time I have been telling myself that with practice things will start to happen while deep down thinking it was BS. Now I am really starting to believe that I can develop the altissimo range. Now back to learning the musicianship to put it to good use. The high note stuff comes and goes in cycles for me. I will push the limts for a short time to see what my new boundaries are . Then I go back to working on all aspects of playing while working to improve my sound in my workable range. This helps me stay more relaxed. When I focus on high notes too much my mind takes over and everything goes to pot above the staff.
Never quit no matter how hopeless it seems. Just keep adjusting and working. Things will happen!
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Dale Proctor · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:32 am Post subject:

Buy a Schlossberg book and work it a while - I've found it to be very good with increasing ease in the upper register. Concerning mouthpieces, I always find the upper register easier on my 3C after playing my cornet with the Wick 4B for a while...
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connicalman · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:00 am Post subject:

BAMBAM25LR · Veteran Member Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 257 Location: NC

Looks like I over did it this week. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Or at least not too much of it. Tonight's rehearsal was the polar opposite of last week. I had to work for EVERYTHING tonight. Looking forward to a couple easy days playing my normal routine. What I am doing must be working to get the high notes coming but I need to back off and keep impoving the how I play within my current working range. I have been told by some very successful players that it takes years to buld the altissimo range. I am trying to push too hard and I paid for it this week. At least now I know it is in the realm of possibility now.
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Marcinkiewicz CG470 Trumpet
Marcinkiewicz E3/3C MOUTHPIECE
Bugles Across America
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trumpet-National-Anthem/108134705961195
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnSZ_o33s5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkvv_zzmsCM

rpwilliams · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject:

I find it interesting that your range increased, I'm not 100% sure that it is attributable to the m/p's but idk... I personally would not try it however because, for me going between what would be a 1C (Bach) and 3C (Bach) makes the smaller feel like a big screamer for a while, lol. I could adjust back and it would sound like I'm used to that m/p in about 10 minutes (assuming I don't switch between the two m/p's which seems to make playing either harder.) Though the smaller m/p would still feel too small for a while. Anyways, what I have found and experienced is that many people like to stay with one m/p and can't switch around without compromising their sound (for a time), while others can adjust within 10 minutes, but it feels different.

I think that that is influenced by what m/p's they played when they were learning, and what they changed to as a period of time(and how often they changed). However, I cannot say that I have done any tests and proved this. It simply appears to be true from what I have seen.

Ron

joe7red · Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject:

I could be wrong, but I believe I read an interview with Clark Terry and he said he went with a slightly smaller diameter, but deeper cup for flugelhorn.
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soulfire · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 283 Location: NJ

I recently purchased a very deep V cup mouthpiece from Curry (one of those new flugelhorn crossover pieces with a trumpet shank). I found that after playing on that mouthpiece, going back to my much shallower trumpet mouthpiece made me sound kind of squeaky and thin. I tended to bottom out on higher notes as well. This is after trying to be very careful of the amount of pressure I was using too. I'm going to need to practice backing off on this new mouthpiece a lot more. Anyone else have this happen? It's very frustrating.
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BAMBAM25LR · Veteran Member Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 257 Location: NC

trane1959 · Regular Member Joined: 14 Nov 2011 Posts: 55

I play almost every commercial gig I play with two mouthpieces, a Bach 3C Megatone for section work and soloing and anything I pretty much play that's not super high and a modified Faddis Schilke to play anything that is consistently in the upper register. I don't have any issues repeatly switching between the two performance-wise, although I know I've been viewed with dirty looks and expressions for leaving the mouthpieces on my stand and seen visually switching them by section-mates who must be thinking you should be able to play everything on one mouthpiece. If I feel like switching mouthpieces will make me perform better, then what's the big deal?
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Hornblower11 · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject:

Bam Bam: You seem to imply that your range is inconsistent from day to day. I would bet that the days its not so good your either tired, not focused or tense. Just remember its all about the stream of air!! The other night, I went to play after having worked raking leaves all afternoon. Needless to say my back muscles were tight. And of course, my range sucked!! So, longing to have a good session, I picked up the horn, arched my back way back and had the horn basically aimed at a forty five or greater to the ceiling. Wow, I played up to an F# fat and pretty. Having got the airstream goinng within my body I ended up playing quite well the rest of the night. As far as switching mouthpieces goes I would only recommend it on an as needed basis for maybe streching out the muscles in your face a little differently and then go back to what you are most comfortable on.
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BAMBAM25LR · Veteran Member Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 257 Location: NC