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ChopsGone
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 1793
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 Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I'm not Shofar Guy, although I do have a mini-shofar I use for Reveille on occasion. But I do own Wild Things, and have ordered Facet mutes to fit the trumpet - in fact, they were kind enough to ask me what horn the mutes were intended to fit, and beefed up the corks accordingly. I'd be willing to bet that if you mention they're for a Wild Thing short model cornet, they'll fix you up exactly right the first time. Keep trying. The mutes are definitely worth it.
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Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls.... |
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tommy t.
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2002
Posts: 2599
Location: Wasatch Mountains
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Accordion Ron wrote: | Yo Shofar Guy! I would say you are the biggest Wild Thing Fan out there.
What I want is two new "wooden" mutes for my cornet. I've written to both Filp and Facet mutes and haven't heard from either of them yet. You can order Facet (is that name correct?) on the web. But they don't mention fitting the Wild Thing Bell. I read that they do make them to fit perfectly on special order. But how do you order them when they won't answer your email? |
Ron,
I've got a bunch of Facet mutes. When I bought my first one, Bruce researched the adjustment that needed to be made for my WT trumpet. He found the answer in one of Brian's post. I'm up to 5 now. Facet has the WT fit down to perfection.
By the way, the original five-sided Facet mutes play excellently in a WT trumpet. When everybody got replacement six-sided mutes, I declined the offer because all of my five-sided ones played fine. Facet sent me a six-sided cup just because they are really nice guys.
You might be able to buy somebody's five-sided one pretty inexpensively.
Tommy T.
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Actually, I hate music. I just do this for the money. |
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Accordion Ron
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 584
Location: Haverhill, Ma
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thank's guy's for the info.....Tommy T, & "Chops Gone" haha Is that worse then Accordion Ron? 
I'll check marketplace etc. And if I do order them from the company, I'll be sure to mention what horn to fit.
MERRY CHRISTMAS to ALL! Which reminds me, that I played the solo on the Christmas Overture that Concord uses the last couple of seasons. It never sounded so good! |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7012
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Accordion Ron wrote: | Yo Shofar Guy! I would say you are the biggest Wild Thing Fan out there.
What I want is two new "wooden" mutes for my cornet. I've written to both Filp and Facet mutes and haven't heard from either of them yet. You can order Facet (is that name correct?) on the web. But they don't mention fitting the Wild Thing Bell. I read that they do make them to fit perfectly on special order. But how do you order them when they won't answer your email? |
Does 6' 1-1/2" and 250lbs count as the biggest? I think I just have the loudest...um, keyboard.
You know, the Facet guys are here in Phoenix. I've chatted over email a bit, but have yet to meet them. I hope to get a chance to see their products soon. They look gorgeous and I love the woodwork!
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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tom turner
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 6648
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Accordion Ron wrote: | Yo Shofar Guy! I would say you are the biggest Wild Thing Fan out there.
What I want is two new "wooden" mutes for my cornet. I've written to both Filp and Facet mutes and haven't heard from either of them yet. You can order Facet (is that name correct?) on the web. But they don't mention fitting the Wild Thing Bell. I read that they do make them to fit perfectly on special order. But how do you order them when they won't answer your email? |
Hi,
Order with confidence! THE SHORT STORY . . . they've already measured and fitted the Facet mutes to Wild Things in the past AND they recently fitted new Facets to my horns with the new materials they are using!
YOU MIGHT LIKE THE LONG STORY DETAILS THOUGH . . . so you can know more about the folks you'll be dealing with . . .
I contacted the rep, Bruce Lee a few months ago and talked to him at length about with Facet wood types would be best for me, my Wild Things and my style of playing.
I've known Bruce for ten years now . . . helped sponsor a Horn Fest and clinic years ago for him when he was the Callet/Eclipse/etc. rep, and I've also been and/or performed at other clinics he's been at. He's a really caring guy and a fine Eastman-grad trumpeter to match! Before becoming the Callet rep, he was also a Wild Thing owner . . . so he knows the horn AND he knows my sound and my preferences.
That being said, Bruce recommended a two or three specific wood types for a cup, and about the same number for a straight mute. I made my choices and am EXTREMELY pleased with 'em. His very specific sound characteristic variations of the different wood types is very detailed and accurate. Bruce has always known his stuff!
THEN DON MADE MY MUTES . . .
Facet mute creator-owner/craftsman/trumpet player Don Davis made my mutes to order, then INSISTED on coming to one of my Georgia Big Band gigs in Warner Robins to MAKE SURE the cork thickness recommended by Bruce for the Wild Thing flare was perfect, and prepared to adjust things if needed. The cork thickness on my Wild Things was nailed PERFECTLY TOO . . . so Don will know exactly what you need.
Don lives in Georgia too, and he made about a 180 mile round trip at no charge to make dead sure the mute corks were right on a Wild Thing. I simply could not talk him out of doing it either. Wow . . . talk about a desire to get things right! When you look at all the intricate pieces and angles of the perfectly cut wood panels you'll know what I mean about a perfectionist too!
BTW, Bruce contacted me a week or so ago to see how the mutes were working out, to see if I still loved 'em (ABSOLUTELY DO) and to ask if the WT short cornet's bell flare is identical to the trumpets. I confirmed his recollection too.
Bottom line, order your Facets with utter confidence. Don is probably busy making those incredible mutes . . . and many craftsmen prefer a phone call to email . . . for they can work while talking on a speaker phone, but every minute on the computer takes them off the bench.
Here's one of mine. If it was stolen I'd order a replacement immediately. The sound is awesome in my golden short little baby as well as with my WT trumpet. Hope this helps!
Tom
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet |
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Accordion Ron
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 584
Location: Haverhill, Ma
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Tom, thanks a lot. I just got an e-mail from Bruce, and he's going to give me a phone call to take my order. Can't wait to get them!
Ron |
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tom turner
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 6648
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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You'll love 'em . . . and Bruce is a hoot. Give him my regards,
Tom
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet |
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Accordion Ron
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 584
Location: Haverhill, Ma
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Tom, I knew Bruce when he was conducting a local band in Wenham, NH. I played trumpet in it. And 2nd trumpet at that. Those "bleep" community bands are more community and less music. I guess the guys that are there first play the solos, and the Johnny come lately's play 2nd and 3rd. tch tch.
However, you always have the option to quit.  |
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Dan O'Donnell
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 2287
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Since Wild Thing Bb "Trumpets" have already been "injected" in this "Cornet" thread...I thought it would be "fair game" for the "experts" to chime in and answer this question...
"Is the Wild Thing Bb Trumpet more CONICAL in design than other Bb Trumpets?"
I played one and immediately heard...CONICAL.
I asked a well respected "expert" (who will remain unnamed) who conveyed to me...CONICAL.
Not a bad or good thing...just different.
Well, are they more CONICAL in design or not???????????
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God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell
"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3 |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7012
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Dan O'Donnell wrote: | Since Wild Thing Bb "Trumpets" have already been "injected" in this "Cornet" thread...I thought it would be "fair game" for the "experts" to chime in and answer this question...
"Is the Wild Thing Bb Trumpet more CONICAL in design than other Bb Trumpets?"
I played one and immediately heard...CONICAL.
I asked a well respected "expert" (who will remain unnamed) who conveyed to me...CONICAL.
Not a bad or good thing...just different.
Well, are they more CONICAL in design or not??????????? |
I'm the guy who let Don play a Wild Thing. The answer is that it is the most conical trumpet on the market. Here's why: The Bell. It has the largest taper of any used on a Bb trumpet. Also, if the player uses the #2 tuning slide (either the included braced or the optional un-braced J slide), it becomes more conical.
Other than that, it is standard trumpet, as far as Inside Diameter specs go. Granted, it is a large bore horn, but not outside the range of conventional designs accept for the bell.
This is not a secret and has been part of Flip's marketing since he started his business in 1994.
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8951
Location: Monument, CO
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Bach and others also make "conical" bells, they just aren't as main-stream and you don't see them as often. Flip's bell is unique, based upon years of research and tinkering to get it just right. Most of the sound of the horn is in the bell, and getting the taper to sound right and play well (good intonation, even blow etc.) takes a ton of hard work, and a little magic...
On-topic, one of the hardest things to do is to compare two horns on the 'net. The pictures don't show anything inside, and unless the horns are side-by-side and equidistant from the camera with the same lighting it is virtually impossible to compare them. At least in my experience. Not just Flip, but all horn makers have this issue; Flip seems to have it worse because he recognizes the tie to Kanstul (which is something to be proud of, not hide). If you took the 1530 and a WT and looked at them in person for a little while, you'd see they are pretty different beasts.
All IMO - Don
Disclaimer: Yes, I am a fan of Flip's, personally and professionally. I have the first cornet he sold, 50th WT trumpet, third C, first flugelhorn, and several other Kanstul horns bought through Flip just to get his special care and service. I was a hard skeptic about the whole enhancement process until I tried it...
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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Bill Blackwell
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1020
Location: Southern CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Herman rev2 wrote: | | ... If you took the 1530 and a WT and looked at them in person for a little while, you'd see they are pretty different beasts. ... |
Okay, I'm convinced.
It appears this is also true for the Kanstul 1025 vs. WT flugelhorn. Best I can tell the only things these two horns share in common are bore size and valve block.
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Bill Blackwell
Founder - Sons of Thunder Big Band Machine
Wild Thing Bb - Copper
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper
Wild Thing Short-Model Cornet - Copper
The future ain't what it used to be. ...
- Yogi Berra |
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Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8951
Location: Monument, CO
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have played a Kanstul Chicago, Signature, and my Wild Thing flugelhorn (among many others) and they are very different playing and sounding. They are all good horns, though I prefer my WT (natch!) It provides (for me) an excellent balance between "light" and "dark" (I prefer a darker sound) and the WT's valves were the fastest of any I tried (probably due in part to Flip's prep work -- they are faster than those on my trumpet).
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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Accordion Ron
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 584
Location: Haverhill, Ma
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a Lawler Model T with Getzen Valves. They were the best I've ever experienced till I got my Wild Thing Cornet. The valves don't seem to go up and down any faster, but my playing is faster. ???? I think they may have a shorter stroke. |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7012
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Accordion Ron wrote: | | I have a Lawler Model T with Getzen Valves. They were the best I've ever experienced till I got my Wild Thing Cornet. The valves don't seem to go up and down any faster, but my playing is faster. ???? I think they may have a shorter stroke. |
Ron,
It's a little weird, especially in writing, but both the WT trumpet and Cornet exhibit what you're describing. It's an ease of phrasing that is sort of uncanny. I've asked Flip about it and he believes it has to do with the inter-relationships between the bell, valve section, bracing and mouthpipe. No one seems to really know why it's there, but most WT players I've talked to mention how they can play things on their trumpet that cannot be played (or at least not as easily) on other horns.
BTW, the Short cornet has even more of this magic than the trumpet. The real kicker is that the seemingly "identical" and very similar Celebration does not have quite the same amount of whatever this is. It's still very good, though.
Brian
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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royjohn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2272
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Hi Shofarguy,
You wrote:
| Quote: | | I've asked Flip about it and he believes it has to do with the inter-relationships between the bell, valve section, bracing and mouthpipe. |
C'mon, Brian, Flip is a master craftsman and surely what he's done with the WT is not something he's just lucked up on. I'm thinking that the interactions are something he worked to achieve, even if he's not telling eggs-actly what he's designed or happened upon.
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . . |
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Accordion Ron
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 584
Location: Haverhill, Ma
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Perhaps just because the horn is easier to play, the valves seem faster. I've never been a wizz at chromatic scales, but they are coming out faster and much clearer now. I wonder if Dizzy had one of these things. |
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Bill Blackwell
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1020
Location: Southern CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Bill Blackwell wrote: | | AFAIK, only the WT Trumpet distinguishes itself from anything in the Kanstul line-up. ... |
Let's be clear - I couldn't have been more wrong.
I first met Flip Oakes at his shop in early 2012 to discuss his flugelhorn.
At the time I owned a Kanstul 1530 cornet with a copper bell and lead pipe, which I erroneously though was similar (or the same). They look alike, but that's where the similarity begins and ends. Anyway, while I was there Mr. Oakes allowed me to try one of his cornets (this one was silver plated with a brass bell). It was substantially freer blowing and had a warmer sound compared to my copper-belled 1530. When I got home that same afternoon, I put my 1530 up for sale and ordered a WT cornet with a copper bell a few months later. It is by far the best cornet I've ever played.
The physical differences are numerous - including thinner light-weight tubing, a completely different bell, a different lead pipe, and different bracing characteristics. But the results are what sold me.
Similarly, the WT flugelhorn is nothing like any Kanstul.
I received a PM this morning about this post and thought it was only reasonable to post a clear retraction! My sincerest apologies for shooting my mouth off when I had no idea of the facts.
_________________
Bill Blackwell
Founder - Sons of Thunder Big Band Machine
Wild Thing Bb - Copper
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper
Wild Thing Short-Model Cornet - Copper
The future ain't what it used to be. ...
- Yogi Berra |
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Accordion Ron
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 584
Location: Haverhill, Ma
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Hi guys & girls!
I'm 81 now. After many years of wanting a Wild Thing, I've got both a trumpet and cornet. But even though I think I'm the best player in my community band, I've been given 2nd parts lately. WAAA! Do they think I"m too old now? Seeing you don't have to practice to play 2nd parts, as they seldom go higher then a G. I haven't been practicing. Nor have I played in church in over a year. tch tch on me.
But I'll tell you the the Wild Things are the best horns I've ever played. I may sell my Gold Plated Lawler Model T, and one of the Wild Things. Which one should I keep? Just in case someone ask me to play in Church again.
Cheers & Ciao!
ron |
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trumpet56
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 623
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Accordion Ron wrote: | Hi guys & girls!
I'm 81 now. After many years of wanting a Wild Thing, I've got both a trumpet and cornet. But even though I think I'm the best player in my community band, I've been given 2nd parts lately. WAAA! Do they think I"m too old now? Seeing you don't have to practice to play 2nd parts, as they seldom go higher then a G. I haven't been practicing. Nor have I played in church in over a year. tch tch on me.
But I'll tell you the the Wild Things are the best horns I've ever played. I may sell my Gold Plated Lawler Model T, and one of the Wild Things. Which one should I keep? Just in case someone ask me to play in Church again.
Cheers & Ciao!
ron |
I vote for the cornet. If you need a trumpet like sound just use a shallower mouthpiece. Age is no barrier. I tutor a trumpet section where two players are in there late 90's. |
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