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Ryan Satmary
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Location: Baltimore, MD
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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure someone has mentioned something similar to the response I'm about to give, but I'm too lazy to read through what's been said already.
Anyway, in my opinion, you sound like me a few years ago when I was a high school trumpet player. Just like you, I really enjoyed just playing the trumpet and never really could commit myself to working basics, the fundamental, the foundations, whatever you want to call them. I was already good, better than anyone else in my school, I made all-county, all-state and all that fun stuff but never really reached the potential i could have reached. That was until I decided that I wanted to make a career out of music around my sophomore year. I knew I was good, and I played hours everyday, but not on the "right" stuff, and that's when I thought, "Sure I'm good, and I really do love it, but somewhere out there, there's someone better than me, and they're hammering out clarke studies, working through the Arban Method Book, doing their lip slurs, lip bends, and technical studies...time to get my butt into gear." That's when I REALLY started practicing, and that's why I'm not currently failing as music major in College.
So in short, somewhere out there there is someone better than you, probably A LOT of people better than you, and the only way to become better than them is to do what they do...and then some.
There's my two cents
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mattvj5
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:41 am Post subject: |
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It took me a long time to understand that your practice should not sound great. It's so easy to play stuff you know and are comfortable with, but you never grow much doing that.
That is the main issue.
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John Mohan
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| AlexA15 wrote: | | I've been practicing a lot over the course of these couple of months and I am proud to say that I am comfortably able to get D over C above the stave. I'd say its mainly down to the Vizzutti Trumpet Method Book - combining, lip flex, technical studies and range development. |
Very good. You are on the right path. I've hesitated to enter into this thread because before I spend my time typing, I like to know the original poster is truly sincere. You seem to be!
I would suggest you stay with what you are doing for now, as it is working for you. Don't expect miracles. Your range will grow bit by bit over a long period of time. The rate at which it grows will vary. You will hit plateaus and sometimes think you'll never progress. But stick with it and you will.
I was once a 16 year old student trumpet player with a range that ended right around High C. The thing is, I had played my first High C at age 9 or 10, so I was quite frustrated with my lack of progress. Then (finally) I happened upon the books and method of Claude Gordon due to there being an advertisement for his material on the back of my Arbans book. The ad featured endorsements by quite a few famous brass players, including Maynard Ferguson who said that his present lead trumpet player Stan Mark was a Claude Gordon student. This got my attention!
I bought the books, started studying faithfully from them, and like you, my range started growing. But even more important, my sound, technique, and especially, my consistency grew by leaps and bounds. I was becoming a real player instead of a struggler!
While still in High School I began studying personally with Gordon, traveling out to California every 6 months or so to take a week-long "Crash Course" with him. Soon after graduating I moved to Los Angeles so I could study with him full time. The end result was Range that went beyond Double C, along with the Power, Sound, Technique and Endurance to become a professional trumpet player. In other words, the end result was a career.
Al Vizzutti's method is very similar to Claude's in that it promotes growth in all aspects of playing. And this is good!!! As Claude often said to me: "Don't worry about the high notes. High notes are [i]inevitable if you're practicing correctly. They'll develop right along with the rest of the machine."[/i]
Claude is no longer with us, but Al sure is! And though you're all the way over there in Scotland (beautiful country by the way - I spent time in Edinburgh and St. Andrews several summers ago), and America must seem a long way away, if you're serious about your playing, I promise you, Al Vizzutti would make himself available for lessons. I know several great European players who came to America to study, then went back home and cleaned up in the jazz and commercial markets. You could be one of them if you desire it enough.
So for now, stick with what you're doing. If you need help setting up a daily routine in the future that encompasses all aspects of your playing, I'd be happy to help you stay on course.
I'll leave a couple URLs under my name with things I've written in the past regarding playing and practicing, and a few links to Trumpet Herald posts where some of my students have had things to say about lessons with me (not trying to brag, but I'd like you to know my credentials).
Best wishes,
John Mohan
https://www.purtle.com/how-i-became-a-student-of-claude-gordon-by-john-mohan
http://thesystematicapproach.com/2010/04/13/what-does-john-mohan-know-about-trumpet-playing/
Lesson With John Mohan
Lesson with Mr. Mohan
A LESSON FROM JOHN MOHAN
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Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: |
The muscles involved in exhalation (and sometimes inhalation) control the pressure of the air. |
Very true. The pressure is generated by the expiration muscles (and can be slightly generated by the inspiration muscles when one fills up completely which allows the natural elasticity of the lungs to generate some positive air pressure as they return to normal size). Darryl is spot on about this fact as he always is.
| kalijah wrote: | Range (that is, a lack thereof) is NOT an air problem it is NEVER an air problem.
It is an embouchure problem. |
Unfortunately, the above quote is both dogmatic and wrong. While range problems can be caused by embouchure problems, in fact, they rarely are. For most players, range is limited mainly by their inability to channel the air properly with their arching tongues, and secondly, by their inability to generate enough air pressure to reach the extreme register (notes well above High C). Both of these limitations can be overcome through proper practice. I personally am proof positive of this.
You don't have to take my word for it. One can read the many fine publications written by the greatest players and teachers that ever lived that talk about this - books by Claude Gordon, Don Jacoby, Arturo Sandoval, Earl D. Irons, Walter M. Smith, Charles Colin, Ernest Williams, John Haynie, and Herbert L. Clarke - or one can choose to believe Darryl.
I'm sorry to pick on you personally Darryl, but I just can't sit by and watch you misinform and confuse a young player who wants to improve.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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Billy B
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Most problems can be traced to the delivery of the air. The embouchure reacts.
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silverhorn
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: |
I was once a 16 year old student trumpet player with a range that ended right around High C. The thing is, I had played my first High C at age 9 or 10, so I was quite frustrated with my lack of progress. Then (finally) I happened upon the books and method of Claude Gordon due to there being an advertisement for his material on the back of my Arbans book. The ad featured endorsements by quite a few famous brass players, including Maynard Ferguson who said that his present lead trumpet player Stan Mark was a Claude Gordon student. This got my attention!
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I have those same ads on the back of my Arbans book too! lol. I never had the privilege to study with Claude Gordon in person, but I have some of his books and they are all very good!  |
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kalijah
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Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Unfortunately, the above quote is both dogmatic and wrong. While range problems can be caused by embouchure problems, in fact, they rarely are. For most players, range is limited mainly by their inability to channel the air properly with their arching tongues, and secondly, by their inability to generate enough air pressure to reach the extreme register (notes well above High C). Both of these limitations can be overcome through proper practice. I personally am proof positive of this. |
The air does not have to be "channeled" to the aperture. The air only needs to have pressure at the aperture and it must flow from the lungs to meet the flow requirement of playing.
The air WILL go right into the pulsing aperture by itself.
Tongue arch is related to embouchure formation primarily and can contribute to the acoustics of the oral space in a delicate way. Tongue arch is NOT required to "guide" anything. The air WILL go from the higher pressure to the lower pressure automatically. THAT is a physical law.
Any attempt to "guide" the air with the tongue only increases the resistance before the aperture and has a limiting effect on flow and pressure. (Depending on how pronounced the arch is)
Playing efficiently requires less than the maximum pressure that most people can naturally generate. Range is not limited by pressure but yet loudness is. And louder dynamics can be increased with increasing efficiency of the functioning embouchure by practice and development. The best way to increase air pressure is by exercise and fitness and increasing the muscular strength of the blowing mechanism.
But again, the ability to create pressure is not what limits range. But at some point it could limit loud dynamics on high pitches.
The pedagogy language such as "the lips only react to the air" and "forget about the lips" and "most problems are air problems" are of a particular approach to get the student to not overly tighten the embouchure as he develops and to play in a relaxed manner.
But from a realistic standpoint there is no substitute for a properly functioning embouchure to create tone. The only real quality that the air has is pressure. Low air pressure for soft notes and greater air pressure for louder notes.
But there is no AIR difference between a good player and a bad player. (As a matter of fact is has been show that the developed player uses less air pressure for the same loudness) The difference is the functioning embouchure and the degree of development. While the developed player learns control of the air for the proper dynamic, there is no magical quality of the air pressure of a developed player compared to the air pressure provided by a beginner. The difference in tone quality is due to the ability of the embouchure, whether that embouchure gets any thought or credit or not.
The "conventional thinking" is not always true. Especially in this regard.
Last edited by kalijah on Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kalijah
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote:
| Quote: | | One can read the many fine publications written by the greatest players and teachers that ever lived that talk about this - books by Claude Gordon, Don Jacoby, Arturo Sandoval, Earl D. Irons, Walter M. Smith, Charles Colin, Ernest Williams, John Haynie, and Herbert L. Clarke - or one can choose to believe Darryl. |
As usual you resort to your obligatory name-dropping. None of who I made any mention of in my posts, much less that I disagreed with in said posts.
(The usual attempt to discredit me rather than actually discuss the matter at hand.)
Yes, the OP can choose to believe me, as many do. They recognize my correct logic that is unclouded by blind dogma.
It is fine to have mental "pictures" as an approach to playing and practicing. Players should be aware of all available, and even create their own, if it helps.
It is also good to have factual and correct knowledge of the physical system as to be able to wade through some of the ideas that attempt to present themselves as literal truth. This gives the player the freedom to choose what works and not be "hamstringed" by the dogmatic teachers whose ideas dont work for many players.
It is also good to understand the difference.
I find that the best approaches are more in line with what is physically true.
I find it appalling that you assume that I categorically do not agree with HL Clarke when he has been of utmost importance in my practice and development.
I also have benefitted from Gordon's structured approach. I do not, however, buy into his ideas (and the gross extension of such by a few of his students) regarding "wind power via the tongue" and the aperture being purely reactive as what determines pitch.
Only because those ideas are so blatantly unsupportable AND misleading.
I do encourage the use of tongue movement that he describes, but I have found that they are related to formation of the embouchure and can be used in limited amounts as one develops, and has NOTHING to do with increasing air pressure or air speed through the aperture.
So burn me at the stake of trumpet heresy if you must! |
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StupidBrassObsession
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Joined: 25 Mar 2012
Posts: 1014
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "Sure I'm good, and I really do love it, but somewhere out there, there's someone better than me, and they're hammering out clarke studies, working through the Arban Method Book, doing their lip slurs, lip bends, and technical studies...time to get my butt into gear." That's when I REALLY started practicing, and that's why I'm not currently failing as music major in College. |
AMEN. hahah This is coming from the person who just spent two hours slowly double-tonguing up and down a C major scale. It's so damn frustrating, but If I can make my double tonguing work GOOD... Well damn, it'll be worth it!
And also, like Don Jacoby apparently said, if you're practicing things you can already do, then you're just... pleasuring yourself... ahem. To get better, it seems perfectly obvious that you have to spend a LOT of time doing the stuff you suck at. Even if, sadly, it means frustrating months of practicing your double/tonguing (Or insert your own problem areas here) for hours upon hours 
How does this relate to range? Well I don't really know to be honest. Range is one of those problem areas where working on it (badly or incorrectly) can cause damage. You can't really damage yourself practicing double tonguing.
All I can say really is this: DON'T GIVE UP. No matter what!  |
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John Mohan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | The air does not have to be "channeled" to the aperture. |
You're right - as long as you're not trying to play the high register on a trumpet.
[edit: Changed the Eye Roll to a Wink. In looking back at it, it originally came off as mean-spirited. I regret that.]
Last edited by John Mohan on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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connicalman
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Location: West Medford, MA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Got strength? It comes from practice.
Got flexibility? It comes from relaxing as much as you can while exerting yourself.
...and a good teacher to help you navigate these extremes.
But mostly, from time with the horn on your face as much as you rest. Or, put another way, rest as much as you play.
Ever blow for a solid 5 minutes at the top of every hour from sun up to sun down? There are many more ways, but that, on occasion, is a good gut-check, as good test of your strength and flexibility. 5 minutes an hour times 12 hours is only "an hour" of practice! Try it.
Good luck!
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John Mohan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | As usual you resort to your obligatory name-dropping. None of who I made any mention of in my posts, much less that I disagreed with in said posts.
(The usual attempt to discredit me rather than actually discuss the matter at hand.)
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Yes, as usual I named many of the top teachers and players in the world - to point out that they, like me, would completely disagree with some of your opinions regarding the subject at hand. I do this to make sure the younger struggling players know that your opinions are not widely held by the experts in our field (if held by any at all).
And actually, I have tried to "discuss" the matter ad nauseam, but you choose to ignore the proof I've provided. On eleven different occasions over the past six years I've written about how I can take an inflexible hollow coffee stirrer (in essence a non-collapsible straw), place it through the corner of my lips, and show that since air leaks through the straw when playing in the low and mid registers, there is full air pressure throughout my oral cavity when playing in the lower range. But when I get up to about a G on top the staff, though at this point my blowing muscles are certainly generating far more air pressure than on low notes, the air leak through the straw stops showing that the air pressure in the side areas of my oral cavity ceases to be there, because my arching tongue has raised up and forward enough to channel the airstream directly to the aperture area..
Some of those writings:
From March 2006:
My reply from: Whats Tongue Got to Do with It?
This one is the full write-up after I first did the experiment back in 2006:
The Tongue Channels the Air (And a Straw Will Prove It)!
From November 2006:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=633190&highlight=stirrer#633190
In reply to the above description of how the tongue concentrates the air, all you Kalijah could do was pick on the semantics:
| kalijah wrote: | Mohan wrote:
| Quote: | | The up-and-forward-arching tongue channels the air and concentrates the force onto a smaller area of the lips. It doesn't decrease the power, but rather, directs it to a certain area, thereby increasing its force in that particular area. |
Not so.
You have confused pressure, and force, and power. |
I really get the feeling you know exactly what I am trying to describe, but your views are so dogmatic, that when you cant provide any real arguments you resort to picking on the wording. The tongue does to the airstream exactly what a hose nozzle does to a water stream it concentrates it so it acts on a smaller area in the case of the nozzle, it makes a water stream capable of spraying rocks off a driveway; in the case of the tongue, it makes an airstream capable of playing extreme high notes.
From 2009:
Another Description of the Coffee Stirrer Experiment
From 2010:
Another Reply on the TH Where I quoted my Coffee Stirrer Experiment
Also from 2010:
A Description of the Coffee Stirrer Experiment from October 2010s ELEVEN PAGE LONG ARGUMENT topic The tongue arch and pitch
From June 2011
From August 2011
Many of the above posts I made have probably never been noticed because most of them are buried within the pages and pages of arguing that occur each and every time someone tries to explain the role of the tongue and almost always, there is one and only one person on the other side of the argument Darryl Jones, aka Kalijah. Sometimes I think you (Darryl) just get up every day and do a Search on the TH for anything that mentions tongue arch, so you can argue!
Darryl, you have made us all aware that your knowledge of the exact terminology of Physics is exemplary. But your failing is you cant seem to understand that the system related to the mechanics of trumpet playing is more complicated than you are willing to admit.
Reasonable people adjust their views according to the evidence at hand. You dont do this.
Since you ignore clear evidence, yes, I chose to point out names of some of the many brass playing experts who do not agree with your rather interesting opinions. And just as my providing reasonable evidence will do nothing to change your opinions, I know that pointing out all those experts wont change your opinions either. I didnt do it for you. I did it for any or all of the young (or old) struggling players out there who might be reading this in an effort to become better players.
Sincerely,
John Mohan
[Edited twice, both times for typos - hope I got 'em all.]
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Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student
Last edited by John Mohan on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:07 am; edited 2 times in total |
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JRoyal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: |
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John's only proof is always unpublished, unscientific, studies done by some trumpet teachers around 40 years ago, and that "Claude Gordon told me so". ( Notice how his post of TH thread examples leaves out all the TH threads where specific studies are presented that challenge his world view?) Someone such as Darryl can presenting valid and scientifically proven information all day long but John is never going to move from his basic position that A) Claude Gordon was right about everything and B) that tongue arch is the end all/be all of trumpet technique and the ONLY way to play high.Many people play just fine without tongue arch, and many people play just fine IN SPITE of it. John is so defensive about this subject that a serious discussion of actual available data is impossible.
Last edited by JRoyal on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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John Mohan
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Oh yes, there's JRoyal chiming in. Like clockwork.
Actually, regarding who I mention, I mentioned eight other great teachers and experts in my previous post besides Claude. I do talk more about Claude in my posts since he's the one that taught me to play well enough to make a career of it.
So, what's your explanation for the fact that just about every brass playing authority promotes tongue arch and channeling the air? Do you think they're all wrong and you and Kalijah are right?
What's your explanation for why there's no air pressure in the sides of my mouth when I play into the upper register? (By the way, I've also done the Coffee Stirrer with students with the same results every time).
Last edited by John Mohan on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JRoyal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | Oh yes, there's JRoyal chiming in. Like clockwork.
So, what's your explanation for the fact that just about every brass playing authority promotes tongue arch and channeling the air? Do you think they're all wrong and you and Kalijah are right?
What's your explanation for why there's no air pressure in the sides of my mouth when I play into the upper register? (By the way, I've also done the Coffee Stirrer with students with the same results every time). |
John,
Until you are willing to invest some time in actually knowing something about this subject beyond "What Claude Gordon told you" I don't see the point of us to keep running in circles. |
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John Mohan
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| JRoyal wrote: | | John Mohan wrote: | Oh yes, there's JRoyal chiming in. Like clockwork.
So, what's your explanation for the fact that just about every brass playing authority promotes tongue arch and channeling the air? Do you think they're all wrong and you and Kalijah are right?
What's your explanation for why there's no air pressure in the sides of my mouth when I play into the upper register? (By the way, I've also done the Coffee Stirrer with students with the same results every time). |
John,
Until you are willing to invest some time in actually knowing something about this subject beyond "What Claude Gordon told you" I don't see the point of us to keep running in circles. |
Wow - you're good with an insult (if not with real answers).
I've spent more than 43 years studying trumpet - only 14 of those years were with Claude. In addition to my time with Claude, I've studied privately with Bobby Shew, Roy Poper, Robert Platt, and with full time professional players and professors who themselves were personal students of Bill Adams, Anthony Plog, Charles Colin, William Vacchiano, James Stamp, Vincent Cichowicz and Renold Schilke.
I've read, studied and practiced out of all the major books (Colin, Irons, Williams, Arban, St Jacome, Gatti, Smith, Clarke (all four books), Sandoval, Vizzutti, Haynie, Schlossberg, Hering, Gordon, Maggio, Thieke, etc.). If stacked, the books I've gone through would sit about 4 feet high.
What exactly are your credentials? What are Darryl's?
Okay, sorry to sound like I'm bragging - I'm not - I just couldn't let an insult like yours go by without saying something...
Again the typical scenario plays out. A younger struggling player seeks help. Several well-meaning people including myself attempt to give him pointers based on our experiences. And as soon as something is mentioned about tongue arch or how the arching tongue can channel the air for higher notes, "Kalijah" jumps in with his proclamations of how it really is - proclamations which are in fact opinions that are contrary to those held by the world's greatest brass teachers and players. And shortly thereafter, along comes JRoyal with his insults. |
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JRoyal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: |
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I amend my earlier statement, not only do you need an education before we could have this debate, but you need therapy as well.
We might as well be arguing creationism.
Last edited by JRoyal on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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John Mohan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Oh good. More insults. |
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John Mohan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| JRoyal wrote: | | John's only proof is always unpublished, unscientific, studies done by some trumpet teachers around 40 years ago, and that "Claude Gordon told me so". ( Notice how his post of TH thread examples leaves out all the TH threads where specific studies are presented that challenge his world view?) |
It's too bad "JRoyal" chooses to lie about the studies I've shared in the past. As has been made clear in the past, both of them, the John Haynie Study done at North Texas State University in the 1960's and the Claude Gordon / Larry Miller, M.D. Study done at La Sierra University in the 1980's were legitimate studies, involving top professional trumpet players (including Maurice Andre), trumpet professors, and medical professionals (Medical Doctors, Radiologists and Researchers), and were conducted through University sponsorships. The Haynie Study was published in 1968 and while the full data from the Gordon / Miller study was never publicly released in written form, results from the Gordon/Miller study, including an essay by Dr. Larry Miller, can be read in Claude Gordan's book "Brass Playing Is No Harder Than Deep Breathing". In addition, Claude Gordon and Dr. Larry Miller (a Physician specializing in Cardiopulmonary medicine) lectured about the results of the study and the role they found the tongue to play at the Claude Gordon brass camps for more than ten years to hundreds of students, one of them being the writer of this post.
The only study I'm aware of that you ("JRoyal") and/or your colleague Darryl Jones (aka "Kalijah") provided was a single study involving two instruments: a Didgeridoo, which is not even a cup-mouthpiece brass instrument, and a bass trombone, on which a few notes at the bottom of its register were played. In said study, both of these instruments were played by a robot with mechanical lips. I hardly think that qualifies, so yes, I left it out. The reader will form his or her own opinion if my choice was correct.
I would urge any reader who wants to read the results of a real, University-sponsored fluoroscopic X-ray study regarding tongue arch and its role in trumpet playing to read the pages of the book Trumpet Technique by Frank Campos that describe the North Texas State / John Hayne experiments that involved among others, Maurice Andre. An excerpt from the pertinent chapter can be read here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=16CBKheCM8QC&pg=PA82#v=onepage&q&f=false
Some excerpts from that chapter:
| Quote: | Working with Alexander F. Finlay, a radiologist in Denton, Texas, Haynie used a fluoroscope and one of the earliest videotape recorders to document jaw position, teeth and jaw aperture, tongue arching, pivot, mouthpiece pressure, position of tongue for attack, [and] position of tongue for double and triple tonguing (Haynie 1968, 7)
Over a five-year period, beginning with still photography and moving to 16 mm film with a real-to-reel audiotape that had to be manually synchronized with the movie, Haynie observed the performance technique of over seventy University of North Texas students and a number of professional performers, including Maurice Andr, Gerard Schwarz and the members of the American Brass Quintet, Richard Giangiulio (former principal of the Dallas Symphony), and big band leader Claude Gordon.
French trumpet virtuoso Maurice Andr was astounded: he was completely unaware that the tongue arched to produce changes in register. Like many of the world's finest players, he just did it without thinking. According to Haynie, few of the study participants had an opinion about the actions of their tongue and no one could describe exactly what happened inside the oral cavity. It is interesting to note that many of the poorer players improved by observing and imitating the action of the tongues of the finest players as demonstrated in the videotape. [emphasis added] |
Now of course, if that were all to it, Darryl (and perhaps JRoyal between insults) would be quick to point out that the above doesnt prove that the tongue channels the air. And my immediate reaction would be, Well, then what is it doing?
But I went farther. I created my Coffee Stirrer Experiment. Its a simple experiment that anyone can repeat. You just take a non-collapsible coffee stirrer-straw and place it in the corner of your mouth so that one end is in the area of the inside of your cheek and the other end of the stirrer is sticking out of the corner of your mouth. Then you play a few low notes and observe how you get a slight air leak through the straw due to the air pressure throughout your mouth. But if you play into the upper register (probably by around G on top of the staff, and almost definitely anywhere above High D or E) youll probably find, as I did, that as soon as you reach a certain point in the upper register, the air leak will stop. Though you will be providing lots of air pressure to play the very high notes, the air will not leak out of the straw because none of that air pressure will reside in the area of the side(s) of your mouth.
I have performed the above experiment for my students and I have had most of my students try it themselves. The results have always been the same. These results have conclusively shown to me that when I play into the upper register, my tongue arches and channels the air directly to my aperture area. There is no air pressure in the side areas of my mouth when I play high notes, though there is air pressure in the side areas of my mouth when I am playing lower notes (because my tongue is down flat for low notes).
One last thing regarding the experiment: It is certainly possible that there are some players somewhere out there that do not arch their tongues for high notes, and therefore do not let their tongues channel the air to play high notes. I in fact, can play up to around a High C or even a D without arching my tongue. I do it by blowing real hard, tightening my lips real hard and using a lot of mouthpiece pressure (gee, does that sound familiar to the majority of struggling, intermediate player out there?). The tone I get when doing this is very loud and harsh and the note tends to be flat and on the verge of kicking down to the next lower partial. But this is not the way I prefer to play those notes! I prefer the easy way that results in full-power (or soft) notes of good musical tonality. And I find that using the tongue correctly, to channel the air to the lips, is the way that works for me.
To me, and I think to most reasonable people, the combination of John Haynies results from the fluoroscopic studies, combined with the results of my little experiment shows that for developed players who have good strong upper registers, the tongue arch aids in the production of high notes by channeling and concentrating the air stream directly to the aperture, just as a nozzle on a garden hose channels and concentrates the water stream causing it to be able to act with more force on an object such as a stone in a driveway.
For the developing and other intermediate players out there whose ranges end around High C, having the knowledge of the true role of the tongue can be very helpful, but if and only if they then take the steps to develop the ability by practicing and practicing and practicing material that will help the tongue to work correctly by habit. The best material to practice in order to develop this ability are the wealth of flexibility exercises in the many good books written by Charles Colin, Earl D. Irons, William Smith, Claude Gordon and others.
Just having the knowledge of the tongues role in playing but not developing it does ones playing no more good than being told how to ride a bicycle but never getting on the bicycle to actually learn how to do it!
Speaking of developing and practicing, I've got a whole lot of that to do today, so I've got to get to it!
Wishing you all the best in your playing endeavors,
John Mohan
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student
Last edited by John Mohan on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PhxHorn
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 2190
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Bergeron mentioned in a clinic a few years ago that he can play a double C without arching his tongue, though it wasn't the most comfortable way to do it. So he did say that arching your tongue helps, but is not a requirement. |
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