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trumpaholic Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1501 Location: Lindsay Ontario Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Since you like in England, join a brass band, for sure you will develop good chops "if" you do your part. I have played with many SA players who had super endurance......... _________________ Have horn, will travel! |
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AlexA15 Regular Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Windsor, UK
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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I've read through all your comments and I have taken your advice on board. I've decided on a new practicing regime and here it is:
Monday: Scales, Modes etc.
Tuesday: Arban Technical Stuff
Wednesday: Lip Flexibility
Thursday: Range Development
Friday: Etudes/Sight Reading
Saturday: Standards
Sunday: I'm not decided whether to take this day as a light days rest of just running through arpeggios and passages with a few lightweight exercises.
Obviously before each session the standard procedure of warming up (buzzing, mouthpiece etc.). Is a 'warm-down' necessary?
What do you think?
Thanks!
Alex _________________ Alex Argiantopoulos, 17
Grade 7
Conn Vintage 1BS
Vincent Bach 3C |
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billybobb Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 264
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: |
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AlexA15 wrote: | I would like to have lessons. I think they would help me do the things I need to do in time and focus me on ability.
I currently have lessons with a guy called James Fussey - he's a great trumpet player one of the best I've seen. It's only once a week for like 45 minutes, so not a huge amount.
Any teachers anyone could recommend in London/Windsor area? |
Since you specifically asked about range, I will deal with what YOU want and not interject MY preferences. If your teacher can't help you with that, get a range specific teacher and use your regular teacher for the other stuff if you can afford both. BTW, they don't have to be in your area. There are MANY of them available on skype. I won't recommend specific teachers but you can do a search on this site and easily find one or two. Good luck. |
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AlexA15 Regular Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Windsor, UK
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:26 am Post subject: |
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billybobb wrote: | AlexA15 wrote: | I would like to have lessons. I think they would help me do the things I need to do in time and focus me on ability.
I currently have lessons with a guy called James Fussey - he's a great trumpet player one of the best I've seen. It's only once a week for like 45 minutes, so not a huge amount.
Any teachers anyone could recommend in London/Windsor area? |
Since you specifically asked about range, I will deal with what YOU want and not interject MY preferences. If your teacher can't help you with that, get a range specific teacher and use your regular teacher for the other stuff if you can afford both. BTW, they don't have to be in your area. There are MANY of them available on skype. I won't recommend specific teachers but you can do a search on this site and easily find one or two. Good luck. |
I'm not sure how skype lessons would work :/ It's not the first think that comes into mind when thinking about trumpet lessons. I suppose investing in a good quality microphone before setting up such lessons would be a good thing to do? Thanks for the idea, I'll have a look! _________________ Alex Argiantopoulos, 17
Grade 7
Conn Vintage 1BS
Vincent Bach 3C |
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jiarby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 1188
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Alex...
How long are your practice sessions??
I don't like the way you have your schedule setup... with things being done once a week.
You need to do lip flexibilities and scales everyday!
You can have a primary goal for a day (like "range day") but you still need a couple sessions of the other stuff. |
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AlexA15 Regular Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Windsor, UK
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:38 am Post subject: |
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jiarby wrote: | Alex...
How long are your practice sessions??
I don't like the way you have your schedule setup... with things being done once a week.
You need to do lip flexibilities and scales everyday!
You can have a primary goal for a day (like "range day") but you still need a couple sessions of the other stuff. |
I practice around 2 hours a day. Could you recommend a schedule design or just tell me what you do and I could maybe adjust that to my level. Thanks! _________________ Alex Argiantopoulos, 17
Grade 7
Conn Vintage 1BS
Vincent Bach 3C |
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jiarby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 1188
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: |
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2 hrs in 1 shot??
If so.... break it up into shorter sessions.
Then created routines to fit the sessions length.
Think about your daily practice being modular/ You can do a 30 minute warmup/longtones/scales session. Then a flexibility session. Then a technical (tonguing, intervals, scale patterns, etc..) session. A literature session... Do a lyrical session with etudes. Do some improv. Ear Training.. etc..
You don't do all of one on a single day, you do some of each.
What they actually are is a job for you and your teacher beause you know your strengths and weaknesses and also what your goals are. |
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AlexA15 Regular Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Windsor, UK
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | 2 hrs in 1 shot??
If so.... break it up into shorter sessions.
Then created routines to fit the sessions length.
Think about your daily practice being modular/ You can do a 30 minute warmup/longtones/scales session. Then a flexibility session. Then a technical (tonguing, intervals, scale patterns, etc..) session. A literature session... Do a lyrical session with etudes. Do some improv. Ear Training.. etc..
You don't do all of one on a single day, you do some of each.
What they actually are is a job for you and your teacher beause you know your strengths and weaknesses and also what your goals are. |
I usually break it up into a 15 min warm-up, then play for 45 minutes. Break and then another 1 hour session.
Thanks for the idea! Will definitely use the model!! _________________ Alex Argiantopoulos, 17
Grade 7
Conn Vintage 1BS
Vincent Bach 3C |
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swthiel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 3967 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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jiarby wrote: |
Think about your daily practice being modular/ You can do a 30 minute warmup/longtones/scales session. Then a flexibility session. Then a technical (tonguing, intervals, scale patterns, etc..) session. A literature session... Do a lyrical session with etudes. Do some improv. Ear Training.. etc..
You don't do all of one on a single day, you do some of each. |
This is good advice. Several years back, I read that from a learning standpoint, multiple shorter sessions daily are more effective that a single long session once a week. This holds not just for trumpet, but for much learning. Your brain needs time to integrate what you've learned, so the amount of a single topic or skill you can absorb in s single session is limited. _________________ Steve Thiel |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Studies have shown the 20 minutes is the optimum amount of time to spend on a learning task. Retention goes down as you exceed that.
Good ways to break up sessions and give your chops a rest are to listen to recordings, sing and clap rhythm to parts, work your fingers on the valves while singing.
Always allow time to work on playing music (the thing you like). _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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Pete Anderson Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 489 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | One of my former teachers said that if you walk through the practice room hall and hear players that aren't sounding great - those people are actually practicing since they're working on things they're not good at. |
Who said this?
I guess maybe it's not just one person's quote as I've heard it and said it a bunch of times too. Very true! |
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brassjunkie Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2009 Posts: 399 Location: Aotearoa
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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If you have a good teacher you should put yourself in their hands, ask them to plan a weekly routine for you and stick to it. Talk to them about your goals etc. If you don't have a teacher you could pick a couple of specific things to do to improve your range and see what difference they make. I suggest practicing very soft long tones in the mid to low register, and I mean as quiet as you can possibly play them. See what effect that has on your overall playing and your range. Do them daily. I would also suggest developing your range by taking a lyrical jazz tune and gradually transposing it higher and higher, keeping a beautiful sound. _________________ Cannonball 789RL
KMI Golden Flair
Conn Director Coprion Bell
Besson Sovereign Flugel
www.jazzinspired.blogspot.com |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8344 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Pete Anderson wrote: | Crazy Finn wrote: | One of my former teachers said that if you walk through the practice room hall and hear players that aren't sounding great - those people are actually practicing since they're working on things they're not good at. |
Who said this? |
I don't know who originally said it, but the guy who told me was my jazz band director in High School, Larry Neumann. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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burnsa_92 Regular Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2011 Posts: 24
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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I think that you need to realize something else: you're 15. You probably have 3 years to work on this before auditioning anywhere. I'm not saying don't work on it, but don't stress out over it either. And I know from personal experience that if you just make playing really high your goal, you're going to be very disappointed.
As for your daily practice sessions, my teacher has told me that the things that need to be your foundation, the things that you should practice almost everyday, are going to be buzzing on the mouth piece and lip slurs. A good portion of your practicing should be taken up by those two things. I know there are other ideas about all of this, but that's what I've been taught and that's what's working for me right now.
There are tons of method books that you can use. The ones I'm using right now are Arban's, Irons' "27 Groups of Exercises" (lip slurs and flexibility), Clarke Technical Studies, Schlossberg, and Sachs Daily Fundamentals for Trumpet.
And if you're looking for a daily routine, I would look at that last book, the Sachs Daily Fundamentals for Trumpet. The whole first section of it is all warm up and fundamental exercises and 3 routines based on how much time you want to spend on it. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8925 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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AlexA15 wrote: | I've read through all your comments and I have taken your advice on board. I've decided on a new practicing regime and here it is:
Monday: Scales, Modes etc.
Tuesday: Arban Technical Stuff
Wednesday: Lip Flexibility
Thursday: Range Development
Friday: Etudes/Sight Reading
Saturday: Standards
Sunday: I'm not decided whether to take this day as a light days rest of just running through arpeggios and passages with a few lightweight exercises.
Obviously before each session the standard procedure of warming up (buzzing, mouthpiece etc.). Is a 'warm-down' necessary?
What do you think?
Thanks!
Alex |
I think this is an ill conceived weekly routine. Every single day your practice needs to include all of your fundamentals. Working range once a week isn't going to cut it. And trying to dedicate 2 straight hours to range studies is also a recipe for disaster.
Not that I'm any expert but here's one of my my typical DAILY routines.
1) Stamp warm-up - mid range down to pedal C
Rest
2) Stamp scales - Low G up to as high as I can comfortably play
Rest
3) Schlossberg - Fundamentals - 2 or 3 in every key
Rest
4) Clarke Technical Studies - Pick one exercise and one articulation model and do it in every key
Rest
5) Flexibility (Harris, Bai Lin,...) - One routine in every key
Rest
6) Etude (Charlier, Goldman,...) - One per day
Rest
7) Irons - Strength - 4-6 of these in every key
It's often best to break this up into 2 or 3 parts throught the day. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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AlexA15 Regular Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Windsor, UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I think this is an ill conceived weekly routine. Every single day your practice needs to include all of your fundamentals. Working range once a week isn't going to cut it. And trying to dedicate 2 straight hours to range studies is also a recipe for disaster.
Not that I'm any expert but here's one of my my typical DAILY routines.
1) Stamp warm-up - mid range down to pedal C
Rest
2) Stamp scales - Low G up to as high as I can comfortably play
Rest
3) Schlossberg - Fundamentals - 2 or 3 in every key
Rest
4) Clarke Technical Studies - Pick one exercise and one articulation model and do it in every key
Rest
5) Flexibility (Harris, Bai Lin,...) - One routine in every key
Rest
6) Etude (Charlier, Goldman,...) - One per day
Rest
7) Irons - Strength - 4-6 of these in every key
It's often best to break this up into 2 or 3 parts throught the day. |
Thanks! So I assume it would be worth getting all those books mentioned? Do you know any place to get them from at a decent price and without having to pay a mass on shipping costs?
Thanks again!
Alex _________________ Alex Argiantopoulos, 17
Grade 7
Conn Vintage 1BS
Vincent Bach 3C |
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huckleberry finn New Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2011 Posts: 8
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Ok, you have two problems. 1. You have a technical issue. 2. You have a motivational issue. No. 1 springs from no. 2.
I can't help you with issue no. 1 because I'm a total noob with the trumpet. However, I can tell you what I've learned about issue no. 2.
There is nothing more important than motivation and a proper outlook on what you're doing. This is something many, many musical instructors overlook. They tell you what to do, but not how to go about it. The learning process starts, IMO, with the will to learn — the right state of mind. For this purpose, you need role models — people who speak to you through their music. You have to want to be like them. Also, pick out some piece(s) of music you enjoy almost obsessively. If you want to play Hummel, for example, really WANT to, then you will actually realize that "dangit, I have to work hard!"
The second important thing is to know HOW to practice. Are you focused or are you distracted and uninterested? If so, what is bothering you? Is it fear of failure? Is it just that you don't know WHAT material to use to improve, and HOW? Is it because you don't see HOW the material will improve you as player (also known as "boredom")? Dig deep inside of you (that's what being an artist is all about), then write everything down, and take charge of your learning. Address the REAL issues lurking behind the technical ones!
The third important thing is to get feedback. GET A TEACHER. And while you're going about finding a good one, grab some kind of a recording device (youre phone might do the trick), record your practice, listen to it, and be discerning! I cannot stress this enough. It is scary and uncomfortable at first, but you'll learn to accept yourself at the level you are.
And that is the JOY of practicing: learning to not be afraid, taking a good look at yourself, being able to accept yourself, but also saying "I can make myself better". See, you've got to know yourself — and then you can express it in music! And that is the JOY of music!
Ok, to change your outlook you don't need to do much. You just need things to click in your head. But if you want to do some reading for inspiration's sake, I highly recommend the book The Inner Game of Music (or, if you prefer the original IG method, go for the Inner Game of Tennis). You MUST take charge of your learning. Maybe Jeanne Pocius' book would give you a boost with both the motivation issues as well as the basic techical difficulties (I'm thinking there must be something wrong with your breathing/embrochure apparatus). I haven't had the chance to read it myself yet, because it is a little bit on the expensive side, but it looks like just the thing you need.
Remeber: Have goals and aspirations; Take charge of your learning — ask questions; And enjoy the learning process — cause that's what it's all about. |
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AlexA15 Regular Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Windsor, UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: |
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huckleberry finn wrote: | Ok, you have two problems. 1. You have a technical issue. 2. You have a motivational issue. No. 1 springs from no. 2.
I can't help you with issue no. 1 because I'm a total noob with the trumpet. However, I can tell you what I've learned about issue no. 2.
There is nothing more important than motivation and a proper outlook on what you're doing. This is something many, many musical instructors overlook. They tell you what to do, but not how to go about it. The learning process starts, IMO, with the will to learn — the right state of mind. For this purpose, you need role models — people who speak to you through their music. You have to want to be like them. Also, pick out some piece(s) of music you enjoy almost obsessively. If you want to play Hummel, for example, really WANT to, then you will actually realize that "dangit, I have to work hard!"
The second important thing is to know HOW to practice. Are you focused or are you distracted and uninterested? If so, what is bothering you? Is it fear of failure? Is it just that you don't know WHAT material to use to improve, and HOW? Is it because you don't see HOW the material will improve you as player (also known as "boredom")? Dig deep inside of you (that's what being an artist is all about), then write everything down, and take charge of your learning. Address the REAL issues lurking behind the technical ones!
The third important thing is to get feedback. GET A TEACHER. And while you're going about finding a good one, grab some kind of a recording device (youre phone might do the trick), record your practice, listen to it, and be discerning! I cannot stress this enough. It is scary and uncomfortable at first, but you'll learn to accept yourself at the level you are.
And that is the JOY of practicing: learning to not be afraid, taking a good look at yourself, being able to accept yourself, but also saying "I can make myself better". See, you've got to know yourself — and then you can express it in music! And that is the JOY of music!
Ok, to change your outlook you don't need to do much. You just need things to click in your head. But if you want to do some reading for inspiration's sake, I highly recommend the book The Inner Game of Music (or, if you prefer the original IG method, go for the Inner Game of Tennis). You MUST take charge of your learning. Maybe Jeanne Pocius' book would give you a boost with both the motivation issues as well as the basic techical difficulties (I'm thinking there must be something wrong with your breathing/embrochure apparatus). I haven't had the chance to read it myself yet, because it is a little bit on the expensive side, but it looks like just the thing you need.
Remeber: Have goals and aspirations; Take charge of your learning — ask questions; And enjoy the learning process — cause that's what it's all about. |
Thanks very much for your comment! Really appreciate the advice! _________________ Alex Argiantopoulos, 17
Grade 7
Conn Vintage 1BS
Vincent Bach 3C |
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FrankM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2011 Posts: 545 Location: Lincolnshire England
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:51 am Post subject: |
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For a comprehensive supply of all types of wind music try June Emerson who is based in Ampleforth, Nth Yorks. Go to www.JuneEmerson.co.uk
She lists everything mentioned so far. |
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jonalan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 705 Location: "Show Me"
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:14 am Post subject: |
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AlexA15 wrote: | The harmony's and scales & modes are fine I know all of them more or less perfectly as well as 7 theory. |
All of them, huh? Sorry, it cracks me up when I hear people say this. Just curious, how many scales do you think there are? _________________ Stomvi VRII Bb
Kanstul 1525 Flugel
GR pieces |
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