• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

VERY old CG Benge



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Claude Gordon
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
leadlad
Veteran Member


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Calgary/Okotoks/Foothills, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:12 pm    Post subject: VERY old CG Benge Reply with quote

I have a CG Benge 9xxx in silver and in very good condition. This horn would have been made prior to there actually being a CG model in the Benge lineup. The markings on this horn are L on the valve cluster and CG on the bell ferrule. I am considering selling this horn. Does anyone know what it would be worth?

Thanks
_________________
-NYTC Stage 1 California Light Bb.
-NYTC Stage 1 Flugelhorn
-B&S 3137/2.
-Bach Model 37* Bb 177xxx, Reverse Lead Pipe, Reeves aligned.
-Andreas Eastman model ECN422
-Jupiter C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 6678
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: VERY old CG Benge Reply with quote

leadlad wrote:
I have a CG Benge 9xxx in silver and in very good condition. This horn would have been made prior to there actually being a CG model in the Benge lineup. The markings on this horn are L on the valve cluster and CG on the bell ferrule. I am considering selling this horn. Does anyone know what it would be worth?

Thanks


This horn was not made prior to there being a CG horn in the lineup, but it is amongst the earliest CG horns. The first ones still had the L on the valve cluster. Next they changed the L to CG and also had CG on the bell ferrule (I have one of those). Then, the last thing they did was remove the CG stamp from the ferrule.

What is the actual serial number of your horn? (This is not exactly a military secret). On the Benge database at http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Bengedata.html there is one "L/CG" listed as being built in 1972. Its serial number is 9371 and it says Lionel Busch is the owner. I'm wondering if yours is older or newer than that one.

I have perhaps the only "CG" horn that was made before there was a CG horn. It's a Burbank Benge Large Bore 6X custom made in 1970 to Claude's specification. Basically it is a stock .468" 6X but with a reduced (.464") bell tube. The Bell flare and leadpipe are stock 6X parts. So it is a bit bigger feeling and plays a little darker than a CG Benge. Claude's bell flare remained smaller longer and his leadpipe design, copied from his Meha, started smaller.

Your horn sounds like a nice one for a collector. Hard to say what it's worth. Perhaps $1200, maybe more to the right person.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for The Color Purple at The Mercury Theater, Chicago
Former 1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story,
Evita, Grease, Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame, etc.
14 Year Claude Gordon Student
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
leadlad
Veteran Member


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Calgary/Okotoks/Foothills, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John, that is my horn on the database.
_________________
-NYTC Stage 1 California Light Bb.
-NYTC Stage 1 Flugelhorn
-B&S 3137/2.
-Bach Model 37* Bb 177xxx, Reverse Lead Pipe, Reeves aligned.
-Andreas Eastman model ECN422
-Jupiter C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nyctrumpeter
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 1876
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also own a CG from a few years after that, @ 75/76' sn 16***. I'd love to sell it as well. It's in the marketplace right now. Check it out. Let me know if its worth what I want for it.
_________________
CG Benge
Ingram Lead
Torpedo Bags
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 6678
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, this is funny. Curiosity got the best of me, so I googled "Lionel Busch", came to your website and saw what you wrote that this horn was built to Claude's specs before the advent of the CG model. So I was going to come here and correct myself. But now I see that you are you. Funny!

What makes you think this was not offered yet on the Benge line-up in '72? If it had the CG stamp on the ferrule, then I think it would be considered a CG model. Or, it is possible that Claude ordered the horn as a one-off and they stamped the CG on it for him. I'm wondering about the Bell taper and the leadpipe taper on your horn. On mine (built in Burbank in 1970), it's got a stock model 6X bell taper and leadpipe taper (though as I wrote previously, the Bell tube starts at .464" as per Claude's desire). But on yours, I think it could be either case. Perhaps your horn is a stock 6X with the CG "Choke" in the Bell tube, or perhaps it's got Claude leadpipe and/or Bell taper designs (copied from his French Besson Meha). I know mine has the stock bell taper because a mute fits farther into my 1970 6X horn than into my 1975 CG Benge or 1980 CG Benge.

Nyctrumpeter’s horn comes from the prime time of the CG Benges. Both of these horns sound like great ones. I am really curious, why would you guys want to sell these horns? I think you're crazy to!

If I had the cash available I'd buy yours just to check it out.

Cheers,

John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
leadlad
Veteran Member


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Calgary/Okotoks/Foothills, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John,
I base the history of this horn on two things:

First a quote from an article about the CG Benge that sources you as providing the information. "I bought this Benge large bore on eBay from another of Claude's students, a guy named Lowell Stevenson. He studied with Claude in the early '70's. Back then, Claude and his students were ordering and playing Model 6X Benges that were built with a slightly smaller bell that had a bore of .464 where it attaches to the first valve casing.........At this same time, Claude was working with Benge to develop his own signature model."

Second, i had been told that once the CG Benge model was introduced the horns came with CG stamped on the 2nd valve casing.

My apologies if I am misinformed.

The reason I am considering selling this horn is that, although I LOVE the sound of the horn, a large bore horn seems to be getting harder to handle as I get older. I am having a great deal of success with a .459 bore horn, so I feel bad that this horn is warehoused and not played.
_________________
-NYTC Stage 1 California Light Bb.
-NYTC Stage 1 Flugelhorn
-B&S 3137/2.
-Bach Model 37* Bb 177xxx, Reverse Lead Pipe, Reeves aligned.
-Andreas Eastman model ECN422
-Jupiter C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 6678
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your horn seems to fall into the "gray area" both in terms of the year it was made and in terms of actually having a "CG" stamp somewhere on it. I wonder if Zig Kanstul would know the answer? I'm really curious if your horn has the CG Bell and leadpipe flares (which are smaller than the standard Benge 6X).

If I had to guess, I'd say your horn represents the beginning of the CG Benge model. But then on the other hand, your feeling that it feels a bit too open for you now makes me think maybe it is like my horn - a stock large bore Benge with just the .464" bell tube modification, because my Burbank Benge 6X does feel more open than either of my two true CG Benge trumpets. The leadpipe and bell flare differences make a difference in the feel (and the tone to a certain extent).

By the way, I love Calgary! Played there each year for the three years I toured with the Shrine Circus.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
leadlad
Veteran Member


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Calgary/Okotoks/Foothills, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you liked it. The summers are DEFINATELY nicer than the winters

I was looking on the data base and the only CG listed on there that is older than mine is about 52 lower in serial number. The markings listed on that one are just CG. It would be interesting to know if that is on the 2nd valve.
_________________
-NYTC Stage 1 California Light Bb.
-NYTC Stage 1 Flugelhorn
-B&S 3137/2.
-Bach Model 37* Bb 177xxx, Reverse Lead Pipe, Reeves aligned.
-Andreas Eastman model ECN422
-Jupiter C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nyctrumpeter
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 1876
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:

Nyctrumpeter’s horn comes from the prime time of the CG Benges. Both of these horns sound like great ones. I am really curious, why would you guys want to sell these horns? I think you're crazy to!

If I had the cash available I'd buy yours just to check it out.

Cheers,

John


Please check out the marketplace for the horn. I am only selling because I am into another horn right now and I need to finance some other horns coming in possibly.
_________________
CG Benge
Ingram Lead
Torpedo Bags
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Claude Gordon All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group