Gil Johnson vs Maynard Ferguson

valvepimp · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 7:48 pm Post subject:

Clarion, I agree with you, Maynard was/is nearly peerless for his type of playing. Whereas Johnson didn't necessarily play any better than 8 or 10 other principal players of the world's best orchestras, though he was a particular favorite of mine. This fact is more of a comparison of Ferguson to his peers (or lack of them) than it is a comparison of Johnson and Ferguson. I think the only way you could successfully compare Johnson to Ferguson and please everyone, is to invite them to have swapped places for a week, Maynard playing "lead" for Philadelphia, and Gil playing "principal" in Maynard's Band. Now that is something I'd pay good money to see!
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plp · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 10:59 am Post subject:

OK, how about this one then.......MF vs. Doc.........annnnd therre offf........

_Clarino · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:53 am Post subject:

Why would anyone (other than a child who obviously did not know better) ask which is better (example1) Versus (example2), in anything, be it performers, horns, mouthpieces or whatever?

All of the players we are going to discuss on this site are going to be fantastic musicians anyway. If they were not, we wouldn't know them.

As for lead being more demanding than orchestral playing, I have to disagree. A much higher degree of accuracy is demanded for orchestral playing. Who cares if MF plays a big fat double C instead of the tripple C he did in rehersal? It still sounds great. If Maurice Murphey does not play exactly what is written on the page every time, he will lose his job. Fortunately for audiences, he is THAT good. He can play high notes too, but really that just helps his security and intonation in the normal range. Who's signature is "90% of trumpet music is below high C"? It is true.

C
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AccentOnTrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 878

Yes, I know. I was simply making a joke of the subject because it's funny how the kid asked Gil Johnson that. I personally would've been annoyed..lol. But hey it all depends on what you like to hear. I don't like to say one great player is better than another, heck Doc Severinsen and Bud Herseth are both living legends and have been amazing since the forties, and they both still are. There are so few players who have done that, that it doesn't even matter who would be "better". They're both gifts to the three valves.

As for Jon Faddis vs. Phil Smith, lol. Let's break it down: Obviously range goes to Faddis, tone goes to Smith...lol

groovinhigher · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:27 pm Post subject:

Hey Pat

The piece was "TITANS" and Maynard just nailed it!!! It was a live performance, I have the recording. I read and heard some neat things about the rehearsal for that too, lol... Bernstein was kind of famous for being being a little hard or sometimes intimidating even virtuoso soloists, and as the story goes, at one point in the rehearsal, the only weird moment happened when Bernstein said, "Mr. Ferguson, I believe that is mezzo forte." Dead silence for a minute, and the principal trumpet responded. "That is Mr. Ferguson's mezzo forte", to which the entire orchestra erupted in laughter...

You have to have in mind or picture that he said this partly in jest about one of the many repeated double d's that Maynard was tonguing over and over and over again in this piece, and from all kind of crazy intervals and rhythms, LOL... Maynard was at his absolute all time prime in 1959 when this was recorded and I am sure is and was the only human on the planet that could play this piece, let alone have the balls to record it and play it live in concert! A friend told me the only other guys that ever tried this was Bud Brisbois and possibly Jon Faddis. Regardless, this recording is the single most amazing feat of physical strength and mastery of extreme range and daring I have ever heard on the trumpet. If you can find it, get it!!!

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Rich Wetzel
Trumpet Artist / Band Leader / Holton - Leblanc Clinician
"Rich Wetzel's Groovin Higher Jazz Orchestra"
http://www.richwetzel.com
http://www.groovinhigher.com

[ This Message was edited by: groovinhigher on 2003-08-09 00:31 ]

Keyser13 · Regular Member Joined: 18 Oct 2003 Posts: 73

To answer this I ask my self the following question, "Hayden Trumpet Concerto or MacArthur Park"

Yes that would be my vote for Maynard.

FlugelFlyer · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:34 pm Post subject:

Gil Johnson

My logic? I see it this way: Gil Johnson would blow his lip in a week doing what Maynard does, but Maynard would be fired in a day doing what Gil does. Just another interesting spin on the issue.
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dmb · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:23 pm Post subject:

Nope. Sorry, you can't fire the Boss.

dmb
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mark936 · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:54 pm Post subject:

I was sitting on a picnic bench one night before a Tom Kubis rehearsal and I was ease dropping on George Graham
(a los angeles studio player) talking to another trumpet player.

George was saying something about how he was watching a golf channel and a pro (Tiger or someone of his caliber) was giving a clinic in Japan. He was giving tips on how to putt and all the intricacy involved. The crowd grew restless and "The driver. The driver." was coming out of the crowd.

George then went onto say how he was giving clinic (I couldn't hear to whom) and encountered to same exact thing.

"Double C. Double C." "That's all they care about....." And he was nodding his head in a "I give up kind of way."

FWIW

bkmdano · Veteran Member Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 328

I saw Maynard a week ago tonight. That was my 8th MF concert. Is Maynard the player he was 40-50 years ago? No way, Did I care? NO WAY! I was in the presense of the greatest trumpet player of all time. The man is 75 hitting double C's and doing it every night. Yes he is a showman, SO WHAT! He's Maynard, He's MacArthur's Park, Birdland, Hey Jude, Gonna Fly Now, Catch the Spirit, Maria, Titan! He is MAYNARD FERGUSON!!!

Oh Yeah, He has kept big bands alive for the past 40 years. Not because he is a great trumpet player, but he is one of the great band leaders who has developed some very good and talented musicians which we are blessed to hear today.

groovinhigher · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:06 pm Post subject:

Marc and Pat, that piece is called "Titans" and it was just re-released on a compilation CD of some NY Philharmonic things under Bernstein. Titans with Maynard performing it live in 1959 is the single most amazing feat of physical trumpet playing you will EVER hear in your lives. Unbelievable. I had heard only one other guy actually did this live, Bud Brisbois, but according to my sources, as good as Bud was, there was just no comparison.

No one else to date has even tried it in a studio, much less live, and Maynard played it like a walk in the park, lol... he just nailed it. A funny story I read about the rehearsal for this, Bernstein was famous for intimidating even guest virtuoso soloists and the only strange moment was at one point Bernstein said, "Mr. Ferguson, I believe that is mezzo forte"... followed by dead silence that seemed like an eternity, and the Phils first trumpet said, "That is Mr Fergusons mezzo forte" to which the entire orchestra erupted in laughter... mind you this is on a part of repeated tonguing on and intervals to double d's like they were in the staff and with the most huge sound and tone I have EVER heard produced on a trumpet, it is unbelievable.

If you can find it, you have to get it... Whether you are a Maynard fan or not, this is the most amazing feat of physical trumpet playing you will ever witness.

I have it and am just dumbfounded every time I listen to it. Maynard is without a doubt the most amazing trumpet player I think we will ever see in our lifetimes, possibly ever.
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Rich Wetzel
Bach Artist and Clinician
Rich Wetzel's Groovin Higher Orchestra
www.richwetzel.com
www.facebook.com/rich.wetzel

Vessehune · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:28 am Post subject:

Rich is this the CD? http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=2145268 I would love to buy it but I don't have an extra $150.

groovinhigher · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:29 pm Post subject:

Holy crap, yes that is the CD but that price on Tower is unbelievable, Jesus... I know it is hard to find, but man... That is the CD but if you can find it anywhere else, and I would try at that price, do so... It is amazing, without a doubt the single most amazing physical feat you will ever hear on the trumpet to be sure.

_________________
Rich Wetzel
Trumpet Artist / Band Leader / Holton - Leblanc Clinician
"Rich Wetzel's Groovin Higher Jazz Orchestra"
http://www.richwetzel.com
http://www.groovinhigher.com

[ This Message was edited by: groovinhigher on 2003-11-12 22:29 ]

AccentOnTrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 878

I would really love to hear that Maynard recording with the NY Phil but come on! That's the worst price ever.

As for who said Maynard would get fired in a day playing in an orchestra? How do you figure? Do you really think if Maynard played in an orchestra he'd sound like he does if he played jazz? Of course not. He'd change his style appropriately. Now, if he was playing Bolero and played the trumpet part up an octave or two then I'd agree, he would be fired pretty quickly!

FlugelFlyer · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:07 am Post subject:

Apparently no one's reading my whole post through. I said Gil Johnson would blow his lip in a week playing Maynard charts, and Maynard would get fired in a day playing principal in an orchestra, but there's ALSO that tidbit of Gil Johnson. I was obviously joking, so why do you folks interpret my comments as disrespect toward Maynard?

Anyway, my logic? the Tasteebro's "Screw the Classics" CD. Don't aske me how I though of that, though that is some freakin' hilarious playing on that CD

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MrClean · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:56 pm Post subject:

That $150 gets you 10 cds, not one. It would probably be a great addition to anyone's library - some wonderful performances in there to be sure...

J

AccentOnTrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 878

I never said you disrespected Maynard, I was just making the point that he could play in an orchestra if he wanted. I'm sure of that.

FlugelFlyer · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:25 pm Post subject:

Don't worry, you weren't the first to make mention of my post. Just when more than one person missinterpret what I say as being serious can drive me nuts, which is what I get living 19 long years with my mom and brother. Anyway, I definately do agree though that if Maynard had set out to be a great principle trumpet player from the get-go with the talent he had, he could have out-done Herseth.
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Trumpet: Bach 180LR, 72 bell
Mouthpiece: Warburton 3XD/KT

AccentOnTrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 878

I know how you feel, people misinterpret what I say on here a lot also. I think it's just because we're on the internet and people don't really know how to react to some things because you can't see the person.

Anyway, where were we? Oh yeah, Jon Faddis Vs. Phil Smith...so who takes the crown?

PhxHorn · Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:32 am Post subject:

Titans has MF playing a lot of high notes, but the music isn't so great and it's not the sort of thing you'll want to hear again and again. The NY Phil also has (or had) a sampler CD that they sent out for free when that set was released. You simply emailed them and they sent it to you. It was also for sale at Amazon.

I've got the recording of Brisbois doing that piece, too, and it's not nearly as good. If you've got a recording of MF playing the song "Maynard Ferguson" with Kenton's band, it has about as much high playing, but it's a much better piece of music. If you don't have a copy of MF doing that tune, you're really missing something. No one else really seems to be able to do it justice.