Slurs

thieltrumpet229 · New Member Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Posts: 4

Ever since I started playing, I've always had trouble with slurs. I can play them and get them to come out, but it always seems like I'm "sliding" from one note to the next. There's no distinct two slurred notes that I hit while I'm playing. This might be hard to understand but is there any ways to have clear, but together slurred notes? Instead of feeling like I'm hitting notes in between the two I'm actually trying to play?

garrett901 · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject:

If I read this correctly your talking about hitting the "C" as your slurring from "G" to "E" ???

If that's the case. Then make sure your slurring as if doing a siren on just the mouthpiece, (of course, it's just a much faster siren when doing it on the horn) like slurring from "G" to "C". Nice and smooth, (in fact, I have my students siren on the MP for several days before trying it on a horn).

Now interval slurring is done exactly as a regular slur, only the aperture movement is MUCH faster. Almost instantaneously ! And at the same time a slight "puff" of extra air will help get that aperture buzzing at the correct frequency. This is going to take A LOT of practice to get it right and smooth. If your still hitting the partials in-between, try aiming for the note just above the note your trying to hit (think/hear an "F" if trying for an "E"). Once you "feel" how it happens, remember it !!! and repeat about a billion times! The trick is getting the knack for feeling "where" your aperture needs to be for a given note, and only practicing will ensure that.

Hang in there, you'll get it!
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jiarby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 1188

This is the weak soft underbelly of trumpets...

You have to practice or you can't do fundamental things.

I had a teacher that said this: "If you can't play it Half-Fast then all you can do is play it Half-A$$ed". What he means is that you need to practice the intervals SLOW until they are clean, THEN you can speed up, one tick at a time.

You can't do the BIG interval until you are adept at the narrow one.

Irons & Colin Lip Flexibilies and a metronome is all you need.
Arban pp125 too. (pp130 in the Vizzuti Arban) INTERVALS. Tongue `em and Slur `em.

Listen to Garrett about the apeture, and the air support... but don't forget the tongue (as Claude Gordon might say)

w00005414 · Veteran Member Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 384

I'd suggest looking at the Balanced Embouchure and the concept of zips that Jeff Smiley talks about, that might help.

Also, my teacher says that when you slur you start speeding up your air during tail end of the lower note in anticipation of the higher note you want to land on.... it makes the leap easier.
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Derek Reaban · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:19 am Post subject:

I wrote a post last year about a success that my son had when working on upward slurs (here). In the posts above that talk about establishing the feel and practicing slowly, there is one step that I think needs to be reinforced. If you go to the link that I provided and spend some time with this very simple exercise, I think you will discover this “feel” that is so important. Once that is established, slow practice and many repetitions will get you to your desired goal. Until that feel is established, though, you’ll be hit or miss with these.

It should also be mentioned that for this process of slurring to work "on-autopilot" you really need to make sure that the first note of each pattern is really well centered and has a resonant, vibrant quality to it. If you are riding high on the initial note (which many players do), the top-note of the interval that you are playing will not pop out effortlessly since the overtone isn’t ringing as strongly in the starting note. Get that first note to speak easily and find the point where you get the most sound for the least effort. Once this is happening, you can apply the process from the post that is linked above. The goal is to move from one note center to the next note center (through the slur), and for this to happen you need to slow everything down and make sure you are listening for the right sound on the first note. This will allow the top note to pop out on its own (via the decrescendo).

Number 7 in Schlossberg should become your best friend over the next month to get this feel happening. Master things that are simple and you’ll be able to apply them in all of your playing.
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roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065

robertgrier · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Slurs

cheiden · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Slurs

robertgrier · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject:

The idea is to make the change from note to note instantly. The changes that take place should happen naturally. besides the adjustments that take place are too small for us to really be aware of unless it's a very large interval like an octave or more. even then what you feel should be very small changes. This applies to valve and lip slurs equally.
Star with small intervals like thirds in an easy range. As you master these you can expand to larger intervals and expand the range.
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thieltrumpet229 · New Member Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Posts: 4

Thank you so much for all of the tips. One thing that I think might be part of my problem is pressure. I've been playing close to 10 years and I've never been able to kick the habit of a large amount of pressure. So will these new workouts helps with getting rid of the pressure too? Are they related?

cheiden · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject:

I do find that excess pressure does get in the way of all of movements needed to play quickly. I'd strongly encourage you to hold your horn with your left hand unclenched and your right hand just finger tips. When I do my fundamentals (Stamp) I find that a loose grip helps the horn "float" to where it's most efficient and effective.

Approached correctly working on your slurring flexibility and accuracy can help reduce pressure. If you try and get faster by just clenching and bearing down I guarantee it'll work against you.
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robertgrier · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject:

stanton · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:14 am Post subject:

Thiel...

I'm a little confused about your issue... You say you are "sliding" between notes. Is that to mean that the slurred notes are not "clicking in"? Either way, you can improve your mechanics to be better. I believe it is an air/tongue incorporation/coordination thing.

I think a good starting point is "note bends". I'm going to give you the super simple "introductory" version...

1) Start on 3rd space C. Bend the pitch by BLOWING the pitch down, TRYING to hear B, Bb, A, Ab as it decends... until it pops down to G. Do not change your lips.All this should be done with air and tongue.

Pay attention to how and when the note wants to change partials down to G. You will find that with practice, you can sort of "lower" the note down to the G with your tongue, without a lot of bending. It sort of feels like "placing" the note on top of the G, push before it plops gently into place.

2) Now, play 2nd line G. Try to bend it up to C. You will notice that it is different; more difficult to bend it up. You'll try and try...and as you give it that last bit of effort... POP... It will go up to C. Going up will not bend as easily as going down. To get the note to go up into the C partial, your air supply has to have already been there. Then the tongue "lifts" the note until it clicks into place. THIS IS IMPORTANT TO GRASP. Again, Do not change your lips.

Also notice, to slur the note down you had to maintain air supply, yet create a sustained/supported air column, though with a more diffuse airsteam while lowering the note down with your tongue, which you have to create a more concentrated (and some would say compressed) air stream as you lift the note with your tongue. You may even feel that timing of the airstream and tongue (slightly) have their own timing in relation to each other. I think this will vary from player to player.

Enter: James Stamp (as suggested by another reply). Starting from the first warmup, Stamp wants to make sure the air/tongue is where it needs to be before pushing the button to slur to the next notes (notice going up is marked as this is the key of the action). I found James Stamp to be excellent in helping me smooth out my playing and check to see if everything is functioning properly.

Again, this is a super-simplified explanation of how to get started approaching slurs (and only one of many approaches). Try it and let me know if it helps.

Good luck,
Stanton
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cheiden · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:26 am Post subject:

Good one Stanton.
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thieltrumpet229 · New Member Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Posts: 4

All of the tips and tricks are helping. So thank you all. For those who seem to be a little confused on the issue, I will try one more way to explain it.
When I slur between partials, like going from an A to an E, the target note has some trouble coming out clearly and totally crisp, like it should. It always seems to come out with a "mwah," sliding into the target note. I thought that it could have something to do with pressure, but air support seems to be my big problem? Let me know if this is any more clear.

cheiden · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject:

Not to over simplify but if you do what ever you normally do to slur A to E, without backing off on the air try experimenting with making an exagerated "ah-EE" with the tongue moving forward (not back) in the mouth. See if that doesn't help clean up the transition.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

VetPsychWars · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject:

percivalthehappyboy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Posts: 731

Maybe you just don't know where you're going.

The same applies to tongued notes. To get a good attack, your lips and everything have to be trained to hit the note dead-on. If you hit it somewhere in the general area and let the trumpet slot you in, it's going to go "mwah". That's how beginners sound-- mwah mwah mwaaaaah mwah mwah. It takes time and practice.

When you're slurring, you should still know where you're going instead of moving your lips around until the trumpet tells you that you're in the right spot. It takes time and practice. Take your time, go slow, do it many times, speed it up when you can do so while hitting the notes crisply. You might tighten up while doing slurring exercises-- keeping your tone is another thing to work on, but that will come as the notes come. It will take more than a day.

Derek Reaban · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject:

I think this discussion is very interesting and points back to a fundamental issue related to upward slurs.

cheiden · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject:

When slurring up there is a natural tendency to blow harder, squeeze the lips or add arm pressure. If these gross movements are minimized then the more subtle adjustments of the embochure and tongue are brought into the game. When I work from Schlossberg I always feel the benefit of exercises that slur upwards while decrescendoing.

I don't think bending up was offered up as a way to work on these rather it was used to make a point. I do know two schools of thought that promote use of upward bending but they're both fairly specialized.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart