Need your help on a design issue. Everyone...please read.

A_Ason · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:56 am Post subject:

Actually, the difference to a "normal" trumpet is not that big. The distance between the ear and bell end is roughly the same as for a pocket trumpet, but the sound is bigger and better. And, the sound is not too "edgy", it is warm and sweet.

And here is an interesting observation on response, adding to what others have written. The horn by Lars Gerdt is not a lightweight horn, the valve caps are heavy etc. The somewhat heavy design has the effect that in a small room stuffed with things, it actually feels like less respons than my Schilke. However, in a larger room it really kicks, and when i play it in a concert hall, or in a loud environment, the response is superb. I would not want it lighter.

A_Ason · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject:

Here is a less extreme construction by Leigh McKinney, Eclipse.
The idea is to get a short distance between mouthpiece and bell but still have very few bends and open curves. It has not had its final tweaks yet, I have had it for test playing a week, and I really like it. This is also a perfect horn for large rooms and concert halls. Leigh McKinney has the same excellent craftsmanship as Lars Gerdt.

Apart from being short, this horn is modular, both lead pipe and bell can be exchanged. I have only had the MY bell for testing, and I am looking forward to try some other bells. Replacing the bell is done with just one screw. Still the horn feels very solid in its construction.

gbdeamer · Heavyweight Member Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 2303

yourbrass · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject:

I thought the poster who commented on a B1 being rebuilt so there was no tension on the braces was spot-on. That's the problem with many horns, i.e., tension from forced-together assembly. You might consider having a horn you already own rebuilt. If it has some of the things you want as a player, maybe more characteristics can be obtained by rebuilding/modification.

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6196

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

That's sort of a reversal of the Puje design. Where the Puje's bell angles off to the player's left in order to clear the tuning slide (which when fully pushed in is only a fraction of an inch behind the bell rim), Leigh McKinney's example angles the tuning slide the opposite direction. Both work to get the bell closer to the player's face, but IMHO the Puje design is less awkward-looking.
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Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....

A_Ason · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:23 am Post subject:

The tuning slide is bent down, not out, it just may look so on the photo

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

Thanks. Actually, I thought it was angled both down and out. But it's an interesting approach.
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Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....

A_Ason · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:33 am Post subject:

I would say that Legh and I agree that that horn is not yet ready for a beauty contest. But it has a clever design idea, get the bell close and use few bends. This is not achieved with a cornet wrap or with the Puje. The Eclipse Equinox has the same wrap as a Puje, but it is a bit more cornettty in its sound. The Puje is as far as I know even more a cornet in style. Here, we are looking for a Trumpety Trumpet, tataaaaa.

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

The Puje can vary a good bit depending on mouthpiece and especially on the player and the music. My granddaughter wanted to try mine the other day, used her regular trumpet mouthpiece, and played a piece she's working up for solo and ensemble contest. The Hindemith sonata sounded just like it was being played on a trumpet. To me, it seems to be a little harder to produce a good cornet tone on it than on, say, a Wild Thing short model, but again the mouthpiece has a lot to do with it. I'm still experimenting.

OK, trumpety trumpety sound: how about just a very wide wrap, or even something circular or elliptical? Keeping the bends more gentle and adding no curves could still shorten the overall length. With that, I'd think a tuning bell might be in order to avoid having to brace a very wide tuning slide.
_________________
Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....

A_Ason · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject:

Or, just use a C-trumpet with Bb valve slides and replace the bell with one that has a huge shepherd's crook.

I am actually thinking of handing my Shilke CXL to Lars Gerdt and ask him to make a shepherd's crook tuning slide instead of the Bb extensions, and creating a shepherd's, crook bell. This can be done without destroying the original CXL trumpet. It would look something like a corumpet or flumpet then.

There are so many nice experiments to be done...

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6196

The horn in the photo does not seem to have a tuning slide - it has a tuning leadpipe, as in flugelhorn or piccolo. Look closely at the receiver.

A_Ason · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject:

david mickley · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject:

yourbrass - thanks for the input, years ago the same friend took a generic Bach Strad 37 that I owned and un-soldered the front bell brace and the bell sprang [is sprang a word] out wards. he then proceded to remove the bell from the horn, re-position it to fit properly and rebent the braces to releave most of the bell tension. he also removed the brace from the lead pipe that connects to the tube at the bottom of the tuning slide. this changed the horn drastically, the horn became very bright sounding and when pushed you could even say it sounded raucous. It really didn't fit any venue that I was playing in except the clown band and it was too nice a horn for that. It was sold it to a high school kid who said he could over blow the whole pep band with that horn. I will say it also took away any core to its sound that it had before and had more edge to its sound then my L.A. Benge 2X which was a very bright sounding horn.
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etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6196

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

Here's a horn which tunes only via the removable tuning bit/receiver.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ogilbee-Thumpet-Raw-Brass-NEW-/110817397994?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item19cd3b4cea

I can assure you it has excellent feedback, has a huge sound (and also very loud if you want it to be), and sounds very much like a trumpet with the right mouthpiece.
_________________
Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....

A_Ason · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject:

A_Ason · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: