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upper register multiple tonguing



 
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jdalager
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Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Posts: 5
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: upper register multiple tonguing Reply with quote

Any advice to double and triple tonguing in the upper register? Independently, I can do either one fine. But together, that's a huge challenge.
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James B. Quick
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 2067
Location: La Crosse, WI

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if it is possible. I use tongue arch to speed the air flow for my upper register, and that pretty much ties up my tongue.

jbq
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jiarby
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 1188

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What range are you calling high? Al Hirt used to do Green Hornet up to High C's & D's/
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abontrumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1731

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James B. Quick wrote:
I wonder if it is possible. I use tongue arch to speed the air flow for my upper register, and that pretty much ties up my tongue.

jbq


That's why purposefully engaging the tongue is a no-no.

To tongue high in the upper register you must first be able to play in the upper register with a beautiful sound. You must also be able to efficiently double or triple tongue in comfortable registers and be able to efficiently single tongue in the upper register...all with a beautiful sound

After that is achieved, then just add multiple tongue. Don't be afraid...don't back off the air. Deep low breath and imagine it coming out. Don't settle for anything less than ideal.
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Al Innella
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 751
Location: Levittown NY

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use an anchor tongue in all registers.This for me, makes it easier to double and triple tongue in all registers.I can multiple tongue my entire range without making any adjustments.
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EdMann
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 2481
Location: The Big Valley

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James B. Quick wrote:
I wonder if it is possible. I use tongue arch to speed the air flow for my upper register, and that pretty much ties up my tongue.

jbq


This is something I've been working on lately, and frankly, the tongue level seems to free up rather than tie up if I'm playing properly. Of course, there are more than a few ways to play properly, so you may want to consult a good friend or teacher. What I think I can say with confidence is that your words indicate a "can't do" visual when perhaps a more open jaw or more relaxed tongue would totally do the trick for you. Take it for what it's worth, from a hack who struggles with stuff like this, but in the end, I seem to find solutions.

ed
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AJCarter
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 1280
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does one double and triple tongue whilst anchor tonguing? That's mind boggling.

It's possible to tongue in upper register. air speed and smaller oral cavity doesnt necessarily mean that tongue is "engaged". But I agree with the rest of what Abontrumpet says. Get comfy tonguing, get comfy playing up there with an open and relaxed sound.
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acritzer
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 827
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJCarter wrote:
How does one double and triple tongue whilst anchor tonguing? That's mind boggling.

It's possible to tongue in upper register. air speed and smaller oral cavity doesnt necessarily mean that tongue is "engaged". But I agree with the rest of what Abontrumpet says. Get comfy tonguing, get comfy playing up there with an open and relaxed sound.


You have to single tongue using what's called KTM, or K Tongue Modified. Instead of using the tip of your tongue, you use the area just behind the tip, while the tip stays in contact with the lower teeth.
I'm not sure if Claude Gordon is the only method to teach this, but it's a very big part of the method.

I'm a few weeks into it now and as strange as it feels at first, it quickly gets much, much easier. I'm up to 16ths around 97 bpm now.
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9828
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Anchor Tonguing" is a misnomer. The tongue should never be "anchored". The tip should rest lightly just behind the bottom front teeth. The tongue needs to stay free and relaxed. At times the tip will rise up higher, but never higher than the area between the bottom and top front teeth.

When tonguing properly in the KTM way as Clarke taught Gordon and he taught his students (including me), it is very easy to multiple tongue right to the top of one's register.

Before learning to use the KTM method, I could only multiple tongue cleanly to around the top of the staff. After mastering KTM I can now double and triple tongue to around a G above High C.
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