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baldvinodds
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A.N.A.Mendez
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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AH......
No......
Just because it is different, doesn't make it good.
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Kofipoiss
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting, The Oberlippentanz was really beautiful!
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Larry Smithee
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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That cat is amazing. A future ITG participant for sure. Thanks for the heads up.
Larry |
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hankinsmd
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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2-5-1
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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That belt is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
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TrumpetAce
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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That is some mighty fine trumpet playing, but the compositions are not worth the paper they are printed on. These types of composers have perpetuated a fraud, and many bought into it. Their importance to the history of music is negligible.
The fact that some professors push this "music" on their students is a crime. There is a wealth of music available that is challenging and moving... without sounding like the soundtrack to your worst nightmare.
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scatanas
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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So what will his next video be like? Perhaps blowing into the bell with the mpc facing the audience, while wearing green pants with purple buttons and a fluorescent pink zipper while riding a unicycle with a square tire pulling a little cart that has a blue watermelon in it.
Thanks, but I'll pass.
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hankinsmd
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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TrumpetAce
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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hankinsmd wrote: I guess if you don't like it than nobody should. Next thing you know people will be playing .... country music. uuhhh.
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I never said that you weren't allowed to like it. Get that straight. You, and others who accept these compositions as "important", should take a few moments and figure out why you feel that way. Then, explain it to me.
I am serious. I studied these composers. You have to study these people to get a music degree - believe it or not. So, please educate me about the importance of Stockhausen and his contemporaries like Ligeti, Webern,.... I have yet to be convinced of their legitimacy and importance.
And the Matthias Pintscher composition? That piece sounds like it was composed last-minute to meet a deadline.
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| hankinsmd wrote: | | TrumpetAce wrote: | That is some mighty fine trumpet playing, but the compositions are not worth the paper they are printed on. These types of composers have perpetuated a fraud, and many bought into it. Their importance to the history of music is negligible.
The fact that some professors push this "music" on their students is a crime. There is a wealth of music available that is challenging and moving... without sounding like the soundtrack to your worst nightmare. |
I guess if you don't like it than nobody should. Next thing you know people will be playing .... country music. uuhhh. |
I think we're all entitled to our own opinion.
Personally, if I hear most modern country music or most of these modern contemporary pieces, I change the channel.
I went to a contemporary music concert at ITG this year. Some stuff was interesting, some good, and some... well... yeah.
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hankinsmd
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:11 am Post subject: |
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hankinsmd
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Deleted.
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RandyTX
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Technically hard, yes. Music you want to listen to over and over, and gets a great melody stuck in your head to hum or whistle the rest of the day? Not likely. Please note, I'm not bagging out the performer at all. To work up such compositions must have been a nightmare.
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but "music" to me is something you enjoy listening to, in many cases repeatedly. I can't imagine putting either of these compositions, especially the first one on an ipod playlist. Or wanting to have 5 different versions of it by different performers, to hear how they chose to interpret it compared to the others.
I just don't think it's an accident that a lot of these supposedly "modern" compositions have gone for the most part ignored outside of college courses. Face it, for music to have longevity, some significant portion of the population has to actually ENJOY listening to it.
I think some people are willing to listen to this, because they think it is 'cutting edge', but how many of them love it? |
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Brian Moon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: |
I went to a contemporary music concert at ITG this year. Some stuff was interesting, some good, and some... well... yeah. |
Did they lock you in the room saying "Once the concert starts you can't leave"?
That is what happened when Marcus Stockhauasen played Upper Lip Dance and some other garbage at ITG in 1986. My regret is that I should have left anyway to make a statement. I was waiting the whole time for something good to hear. It never happened. At best it was like listening to some sporadic practicing.
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mahaberio
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Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:14 am Post subject: |
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Hi! First, I'd like to thank everyone for watching and taking some time to comment. I saw these posts this morning (German time) and was really surprised there was such a response.
| TrumpetAce wrote: | So, please educate me about the importance of Stockhausen and his contemporaries like Ligeti, Webern,.... I have yet to be convinced of their legitimacy and importance.
And the Matthias Pintscher composition? That piece sounds like it was composed last-minute to meet a deadline. |
First I'd like to point out that Webern was not a contemporary of Stockhausen and Ligeti. In short, Webern was largely responsible for reducing most of the traditional musical parameters to intervallic relationships; so, basically a music built on the relationship between two sounds. While they were not contemporaries, the mention of Webern here is actually quite advantageous as it segues nicely into the beginning of Stockhausen and his significance. When Stockhausen first started composing he was very heavily influenced by Webern, and his idea to take these ideas forward was actually to compose the sounds themselves. This led to much of his pioneering work with electronic music. One could write several doctoral theses on the significance of Stockhausen in different areas of music, but suffice it to say that he made break-through after break-through, revolutionizing the worlds of aleatoric music, spatial elements (he was one of he pioneers of the surround-sound we're all now so accustomed to, for one small example), formula composition, instrumental theater, etc. LICHT alone solidifies his genius to just about anyone who has taken the time to get to know it.
As for Matthias' piece, I think it's beautiful, unique writing. It's technically challenging, but has a clear and easily understood form. It's hard to have a discussion with what you said about it as it's really just a blanket statement. I really don't mind addressing criticism (there's nothing worse than being too polite), but I have to at least have enough information to understand something about your perspective to begin to address it.
| RandyTX wrote: | Music you want to listen to over and over, and gets a great melody stuck in your head to hum or whistle the rest of the day? Not likely.... Call me old-fashioned if you like, but "music" to me is something you enjoy listening to, in many cases repeatedly. I can't imagine putting either of these compositions, especially the first one on an ipod playlist. Or wanting to have 5 different versions of it by different performers, to hear how they chose to interpret it compared to the others.
I just don't think it's an accident that a lot of these supposedly "modern" compositions have gone for the most part ignored outside of college courses. Face it, for music to have longevity, some significant portion of the population has to actually ENJOY listening to it. |
This brings up a lot of interesting questions about context. Should music be dismissed because it's not catchy or easy-listening? It certainly is for the most part. In entertainment culture, everything's role seems to be a cure for boredom. This is why TV, popular music, etc. are so "accessible" (euphemism for "doesn't require any effort on the part of the consumer"). Art is not always there to be easy on us. Its purpose in many cases is to challenge us and it seems that the prevailing (and easiest) response to this challenge is dismissal. This is not specific to music, but also to the worlds of literature, film, visual media, etc.
As for the music of contemporary composers being ignored, that is simply untrue. General consciousness of new forms of art of course takes time, but we're already seeing many of the really important works by Stockhausen, Ligeti, Xenakis, Berio, Boulez, etc. enter the standard repertoire. There is more demand for more challenging forms of art in Europe, of course. In music, this can be seen in both the reception of new works, and the value placed on the classics. If longevity, as you stated, requires a high level of public interest and participation, then I'm afraid the classics have also run their course...
| Brian Moon wrote: | | ...when Marcus Stockhauasen played Upper Lip Dance and some other garbage at ITG in 1986. |
Markus Stockhausen is a dear friend and has been a very generous mentor to me. Like I said earlier, I'm happy to address criticism as I think a healthy discourse is important; but let's please keep comments productive. Openly bashing other players, particularly one on the level of Markus, just seems out of line and counter-productive to me.
-matthew
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hankinsmd
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:46 am Post subject: |
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TrentAustin
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Rapier232
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:29 am Post subject: |
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Well that's a couple of minutes of my life wasted.
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hankinsmd
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Matthew,
A friend of mine is teaching at Chosen Vale this Summer. I was thinking about going out to it. How was your experience?
-Mike |
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