Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:31 am Post subject: Shost 5, Low concert F?
As you know, Shost 5 has that wicked low passage (13 measures) in the beginning of the 1st movement that goes down to a low F concert. Since I'm using my C, I have to pop the third slide out to its extended length, but with only one beat rest, I'm having some difficulty getting the slide all the way out in time! The slide is a bit tight, so I may have to take it into the shop.
My question is, has anyone simply used a Bb on this section, or would that be considered way uncool?
Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 60 Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:57 am Post subject:
Even more uncool would be to play a really flat f# because your slide is slow or sticky. _________________ Wes Couch
Bach 37 Bb
Bach 229 C
Bach/Melk Eb
LA Benge Piccolo
Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 644 Location: Massachusetts/New Hampshire
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: Low F
I've seen the BSO do this piece twice, once they used C trumpets, and presumably just threw the slide out in time. The second time they used Bb's for just this passage.
Joined: 23 Nov 2001 Posts: 1124 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:11 am Post subject:
I think that most people use Bb on this...
When we did it in graduate school, our prof told us to play it on C. We did, and really worked on playing that low F...we had it down pretty darn good. Fitz flat out told us that you NEED to be able to play a low F on C trumpet. Great advice.
However, the next time I do it, I hope to do it on Bb...(and anybody who knows me knows how weird this sounds coming from me...I rarely play much Bb).
I learned it with the slide kicked out before the rest. Just learn the lick with the new fingerings.
I think you should get your slide fixed, so it will slide right down with no problems.
Yes, you need the low F on you C trumpet. I practice the low F (w/ slide kicked out, not pedals) in my warm-ups and etudes whenever I can work it in. After a while, it can become just another note (almost). It'll get pretty natural and you won't be afraid of it. Like with a lot of things in trumpet playing, you can let it get the better of you, or you can get the better of it, your choice.
That being said, we did this last year. I played most rehearsals on my C. Towards the end I switched to Bb and loved it. I play mostly C, but it lays well on Bb.
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Shost 5, Low concert F?
trptmindfk wrote:
As you know, Shost 5 has that wicked low passage (13 measures) in the beginning of the 1st movement that goes down to a low F concert. Since I'm using my C, I have to pop the third slide out to its extended length, but with only one beat rest, I'm having some difficulty getting the slide all the way out in time! The slide is a bit tight, so I may have to take it into the shop.
My question is, has anyone simply used a Bb on this section, or would that be considered way uncool?
It's fine to either extend the slide on a C or use a Bb for this passage or the entire work for that matter. Whatever YOU feel most comfortable with---good trumpeting is not a fashion statement. Actually from memory, the third player is just sitting there doing nothing at this point. Ask him/her to play it as well on a Bb and then you can just play along on the C and leave the low F covered by the two beside you! _________________ Principal Trumpet,
Sydney Symphony (1978-2011)
Lecturer in Trumpet, Australian National University 1990-2010
Bach Artist and Clinician, Soloist
http://www.bachbrass.com/artists/profile.php?aid=1019
There is a Youtube recording of Bernstein and Boston Symphony doing Tchaik 5. There are 4 in the section which includes Ghitalla and Smedvig. They are playing a variety of trumpets. It doesn't get much more 'cool' in my book.
Hey Andy! Yeah, but would you use it in Shostakovich 5, really??
Besides, you'd have to get a second mortgage or sell the car..... _________________ Principal Trumpet,
Sydney Symphony (1978-2011)
Lecturer in Trumpet, Australian National University 1990-2010
Bach Artist and Clinician, Soloist
http://www.bachbrass.com/artists/profile.php?aid=1019
Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 1090 Location: Mérida, Yucatan
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:25 am Post subject:
Last time we played this I used Bb for the whole thing. Next time around I might bring the C for a couple of passages though. I find most Shostakovich works well on Bb and it's certainly the sound I want for this rep.
Yes, you definitely need a low F on C. There's no way around it.
Dan's advice is really good on this one. The third player doubles/spells the first throughout this piece anyway.
Rob _________________ Laskey/Pinc C
Bach/Laskey Conversion C
Bach MV/Laskey-Pinc ML Bb
Bach NY M Bb
Bach/Melk Eb
Schilke P7-4
Schilke A2C cornet
King Silversonic Bb/A cornet
Melk PVAs
Stork Custom mouthpieces
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Shost 5, Low concert F?
Dan in Sydney wrote:
trptmindfk wrote:
As you know, Shost 5 has that wicked low passage (13 measures) in the beginning of the 1st movement that goes down to a low F concert. Since I'm using my C, I have to pop the third slide out to its extended length, but with only one beat rest, I'm having some difficulty getting the slide all the way out in time! The slide is a bit tight, so I may have to take it into the shop.
My question is, has anyone simply used a Bb on this section, or would that be considered way uncool?
It's fine to either extend the slide on a C or use a Bb for this passage or the entire work for that matter. Whatever YOU feel most comfortable with---good trumpeting is not a fashion statement. Actually from memory, the third player is just sitting there doing nothing at this point. Ask him/her to play it as well on a Bb and then you can just play along on the C and leave the low F covered by the two beside you!
Great idea, I'll do just that with the 3rd player! Thanks!
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 3572 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject:
Now if I could only find a way to play that pesky written pedal Eb in "Lullaby of Broadway" from the show 42nd Street...but that's a question for another forum. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb
Yamaha 731 Flugel
Kanstul 920 Picc
Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim/Bach 1-1/2C underpart
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 540 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject:
Dan in Sydney wrote:
Hey Andy! Yeah, but would you use it in Shostakovich 5, really??
Besides, you'd have to get a second mortgage or sell the car.....
Well..., it depends on who one's playing with. It doesdo the business, and someone didn't notice it in a Carmen suite until after we'd performed the low Eb in the prelude. (I can see a 'compare the C trumpet' session in the future)
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 1645 Location: Cope, IN
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject:
Extend the slide to where the F is in tune for the passage using 1-2-3 with the slide extended. Alter any other notes in the phrase using the 3rd valve to a fingering that makes it 1/2 step higher. Say you are to play a G natural 1-3. Instead, play it 2-3. The pitch being dropped a half step will make the note right. I've done this with Carmen as well., on the Bb. _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony Orchestra (Avon, IN)
Faculty, Indiana Wesleyan University &
Monrovia High School (IN)
Calendar Editor, International Trumpet Guild
Music Caption Head, CSJA
Joined: 11 Jun 2003 Posts: 448 Location: Bethel Park, PA
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject:
We did this piece a couple months ago in Pittsburgh, and Neal and I played the low lick on Bb and George played it on C. We then switched to C for the remainder of the piece. There's about 10 measures or so to switch back after playing it.
Really, who cares what horn you play it on, just make sure it's loud enough.
We did this piece a couple months ago in Pittsburgh, and Neal and I played the low lick on Bb and George played it on C. We then switched to C for the remainder of the piece. There's about 10 measures or so to switch back after playing it.
Really, who cares what horn you play it on, just make sure it's loud
enough.
Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 1061 Location: Kankakee, IL
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:33 am Post subject:
Had that note for a Bb once but now I would just lip it down like all my drills for CG stuff. Can play all the way to pedal C# pretty well now. _________________ Kanstul Chicago 1001
Kanstul GIR 3V-3 BB, 3VM-4 BB, 3VS-5BB
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