• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Smaller equipment



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Claude Gordon
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
trptdoc
Veteran Member


Joined: 01 May 2003
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Smaller equipment Reply with quote

CG was death on small mouthpieces and small bore horns, often saying "first no endurance,then no range, then no sound" if you switch to smaller equipment. With experience I have changed my philosophy on this both personally and with my students. I switch back and forth with horns and mpcs without problem. It did take a period of getting used to not blowing so hard on the step bore 8310Z but it's a lot less work. For quintet and orchestra I still use my CG horns and CG3 mpc. I,d like to known if any other CG guys do the same?
_________________
"Big Breath Chest Up", "Hit 'Em Hard and Wish "Em Well", " Take It Farther than I Did"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Matt Graves
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 785
Location: Brooklyn NY

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, doc, I played the CG3 mpc in through high school first on a .459 Severinsen 900S Getzen. My HS graduation gift was a Bach 43* lightweight, used the CG3 with that. Started studying with Claude in June right after my HS graduation. Switched to the CG Personal mpc and CG Selmer about a year and a half into studying with Claude on a regular monthly basis. Played that combination on two seasons of Trad Jazz at an amusement park, 4 years worth of cruise ships, 5 weeks worth of Clyde Beatty-Cole Bros. Circus.

Decided to switch to a Bel Canto Model 54 .459 trumpet in about 1990. At that time, I kept the CG Selmer rim but switched to a shallower cup, kept the big backbore and slightly downsized the throat from 22 to about 24. Now I play a Giddings and Webster stainless steel 1.25M Helios Model 149 with a 25 throat.

What i did not learn from trial and error years ago was that my chops favor a certain rim shape and inside diameter. My inside diameter (approx. .673 ) is a little bigger now than the CG Personal (approx. .667 or so) and the rim a little wider with an "undercut" or steep alpha angle into a medium "V" cup.

Also use the GW 1.25 Helios Model 152 with a 24 throat.

BTW, to anybody reading, I am not knocking the CG mouthpieces whether Benge, Kanstul or Marcinkeiwitz. If you find they are appropriate for your purposes, use them.
_________________
Online Lessons - [email protected]
Author of Fundamental Flexibility Studies
Claude Gordon Certified Teacher
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
BlakeD
New Member


Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently, I've switched from my CG selmer to my CG benge with good results. I only play 1 day a week in the community college Jazz band, but my endurance and range is much, much better on the smaller .468 bore CG benge compared to the CG selmer. Given that I only play as a hobby, I feel like the CG selmer takes everything out of me much sooner. On my benge, I have a lot more range and focused sound. With the Selmer, it requires more breath control or else you can really wind yourself.

I use a mouthpiece that was custom built by Mark Curry. It is a Schilke 18 rim, which works well for my mouth structure, but has a CG personal underpart and he matched the backbore of the original CG personal. It's called the BD2 (after my initials). He has a BD1 which is a Schilke 18 rim and CG personal underpart, but the backbore and throat are standard (e.g. 26 with a 'straight' backbore).

The only problem is that my benge is old and the valves aren't that good, so I've been looking at replacing it, but these are hard to come by, and I was just thinking more about the smaller horns. I have made many years of progress on the Selmer, but the problem is endurance. I want to be able to play through a 2 hour rehearsal and I can do that now on the benge - so there is some value here in the smaller equipment. What's funny is that by most standards, the CG benge is still considered large equipment. It makes me wonder if I would do better overall on something even smaller.

Blake D.
_________________
Trumpet: CG Selmer, and CG Benge
Mouthpiece: CG Personal, Curry BD2 (Custom)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trptdoc
Veteran Member


Joined: 01 May 2003
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback. Matt, do you use the same equipment on every job? The following is not CG heresy, I think he would agree with most of this! I know he certainly experienced the loss of his wind power with age. I find I get the sizzle I want for lead playing with less work using a 13a4 mps but had to learn to not overblown and back things up. I think it gets harder to maintain wind power with age. I'm 67 now and my vital capacity is about half what it was in my 20s. It's inevitable no matter how hard we train. I believe the affective life-span of a trumpet player can be extended by learning to play more efficiently. Perhaps this is why Clarke and many of the old pros felt they played their best in their 40s and retired in their 50s. My therories on all this basically are an extension of ongoing curiosity about wind power, stemming from years of playing with a wide range of great players and seeing how easily my students adapt to using the right equipment for the particular job.
_________________
"Big Breath Chest Up", "Hit 'Em Hard and Wish "Em Well", " Take It Farther than I Did"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EricV
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting topic doc. As a just turned 57 comeback cornet player after a 25 something years lay off, i came across Claudes material by accident around June last year and it made so much sense after the brass band style of teaching i had been brought up on, if only i had come across it 30 years ago!. Anyway, i started doing systematic approach and got hooked, so much so i am sitting here just analyzing my first 2 months of lessons with Jeff Purtle via Skype here in Australia and the saying "Build up, Dont tear down" now makes total sense. The breathing side has improved but i get what you are saying Doc, that the power gets less as we age. I thought initially what is taking lessons doing for me at this stage of life, but i just want to be the best player i can be and the lessons etc are great and i am looking forward to developing with Jeffs help. On with the breathing excercises doc, they have still got to help, even at my advancing age, i hope!!

Eric
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Matt Graves
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 785
Location: Brooklyn NY

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry:

With the Giddings and Webster Mpcs I use an M cup (a medium V) with a 25 throat on the lead and commercial stuff. I use the MD cup (more like a Bach B cup) with a 24 throat on C trumpet and other classical stuff. Anymore, I don't use big throat sizes unless I am playing cornet or flugel.
One other tool I use now that I did not have years ago is the Power Lung Device for some breathing exercises. I find it help to develop the feel of efficiently pressurizing air.
_________________
Online Lessons - [email protected]
Author of Fundamental Flexibility Studies
Claude Gordon Certified Teacher
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Claude Gordon All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group