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Kanstul 1601 does tight leadpipe restrict the blow?


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rap
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Kanstul 1601 does tight leadpipe restrict the blow? Reply with quote

Im looking for a versatile commercial horn and have narrowed my choices to a Kanstul 1601 or 1600.

Ive read lots of posts here and the 1601 sounds like a great horn but just wondering how much a tight leadpipe restricts the blow. Perhaps the rounded tuning slide negates this issue but Id be interested in hearing from anyone who uses this horn before I go ahead and buy.

I live in the UK and cant find one in the country to try before buying so any experiences would be helpful.

Thanks,

Rich
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well try calling them and talking to them. They can put any of the Benge leadpipes you want on and can reverse them as well. You do not have to buy off the rack with Kanstul they will happily modify a design to better fit you the purchaser. Keep in mind they are on the West Coast of America when converting from your time zone to Zulu and back again!
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trmptz
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt.Kirk wrote:
Well try calling them and talking to them. They can put any of the Benge leadpipes you want on and can reverse them as well. You do not have to buy off the rack with Kanstul they will happily modify a design to better fit you the purchaser. Keep in mind they are on the West Coast of America when converting from your time zone to Zulu and back again!


The OP SAID he wanted to hear from someone who actually uses one! Do you!?????
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1601 does not have a tight mouthpipe. It is a very open feeling ML trumpet. The blow is very much like a Benge 5X, which is pretty equal to Kanstul's 1001 or the CG Benge in feel.

The 1601 is a free-feeling trumpet, but doesn't "suck the air out" of you. To my recollection, it is a much more relaxed blow and response compare to the 1600. I never got along with the WB model, myself.

This is one example of a horn that defies the Capt.'s assertions about the #25 mouthpipe. He (and you) might be surprised at some trumpets that use it. One thing that that number doesn't suggest is the finish ventury specification. I have no idea what size Tim chose for this horn, but a reamer is used to determine the final ID of the small end.

In my opinion, the 1601 is easily one of the top 3 ML horns on Kanstul's lineup.

Brian
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Bill Blackwell
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Kanstul 1601 does tight leadpipe restrict the blow? Reply with quote

rap wrote:
I ... have narrowed my choices to a Kanstul 1601 or 1600.

Ive read lots of posts here and the 1601 sounds like a great horn but just wondering how much a tight leadpipe restricts the blow. ...


I have owned three 1600s over the past three or four years and I own a 1601 now. The blow on the 1601 is as efficient it gets without feeling 'stuffy' (for me). I've used mine in both jazz combo and ensemble (on lead) settings without issue. I would never call the 1601 'restrictive'.

To get right to the point of your question, if you asked me which I would buy today between the 1600 and 1601, I would say, 'chose your poison' - they're both great horns.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Kanstul 1601 does tight leadpipe restrict the blow? Reply with quote

rap wrote:
Im looking for a versatile commercial horn and have narrowed my choices to a Kanstul 1601 or 1600.

Ive read lots of posts here and the 1601 sounds like a great horn but just wondering how much a tight leadpipe restricts the blow. Perhaps the rounded tuning slide negates this issue but Id be interested in hearing from anyone who uses this horn before I go ahead and buy.

I live in the UK and cant find one in the country to try before buying so any experiences would be helpful.

Thanks,

Rich

To answer your question directly, no, it does not restrict the blow at all. The biggest factor in the "blow" feel would come from a different radius tuning slide.

The 1601, formerly known as the 1500TW (of which I am that "TW"), is an extremely versatile trumpet. So far, it has fit perfectly in every performance and recording situation I have used it in (Broadway, sessions, backing major acts, wind ensembles, quintets, orchestras, lead, section, solo) - you name it, it's probably been in it.

It also blends wonderfully with other makes of trumpets and different players.

I chose the 25 pipe vs the 25-O because it balanced out the trumpet much better. The light weight of the trumpet, combined with the all-copper and all-brass body (no nickle) make for a trumpet that has exceptionally easy response. The 25-O was too open a pipe, whereas the 25 was, at least by my playing, the ideal balance & blend.

When I was actively working music industry and educator shows for Kanstul, I would let guys try it with the standard 25 that was on it, and a 25-O that I could attach so that they could do an A/B comparison.

Hands down the preference was the 25 vs the 25-O.

And, in side-by-side A/B comparisons, many preferred the 1601 over the 1600, which is an entirely different trumpet in just about every way. Please don't let the consecutive model numbers confuse you - that is purely for marketing designation.

Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.
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Michael Drapp
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:
The 1601 does not have a tight mouthpipe. It is a very open feeling ML trumpet. The blow is very much like a Benge 5X, which is pretty equal to Kanstul's 1001 or the CG Benge in feel.

The 1601 is a free-feeling trumpet, but doesn't "suck the air out" of you. To my recollection, it is a much more relaxed blow and response compare to the 1600. I never got along with the WB model, myself.

This is one example of a horn that defies the Capt.'s assertions about the #25 mouthpipe. He (and you) might be surprised at some trumpets that use it. One thing that that number doesn't suggest is the finish ventury specification. I have no idea what size Tim chose for this horn, but a reamer is used to determine the final ID of the small end.

In my opinion, the 1601 is easily one of the top 3 ML horns on Kanstul's lineup.

Brian


Hi Brian,

What would be the other two top ML Kanstul's? My guess is the 1001 and the X Model?

Mike
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My top 2 Kanstuls are the 1601 and the 700.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1601
1502
1537

All ML, all play wonderfully, all worth a try.
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BrassEye
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: Kanstul 1601 does tight leadpipe restrict the blow? Reply with quote

rap wrote:
I live in the UK and cant find one in the country to try before buying so any experiences would be helpful.


Trevor Jones will sort you out.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Drapp wrote:
shofarguy wrote:

In my opinion, the 1601 is easily one of the top 3 ML horns on Kanstul's lineup.

Brian


Hi Brian,

What would be the other two top ML Kanstul's? My guess is the 1001 and the X Model?

Mike


Mike,

Nate hit two of the three I think are great horns. The 1001 isn't an ML horn, but an MLP .464" horn and my favorite Kanstul Bb. I do think the X-Model is a tremendous horn, but I also have to give Tim's choice of the 1537 (especially the fully developed 1537-P) a nod, as it is also very good and well sorted. It's been some time since I had a chance to go through the lineup, so my list of favorite MLs may have changed some, but the top three Bbs are what they are.

Chicago 1001 - MLP
1601 - ML
X-Model - ML
700 - ML

There are so many Kanstul horns that play well for me. It would be much easier to list the few that don't.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to add, just for clarification, that in all my time with Kanstul (24 years), and especially after the 1500TW / 1601 was created, I have not and do not make any commission on any sales of these instruments.
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Adam V
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Kanstul 1601 does tight leadpipe restrict the blow? Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
I chose the 25 pipe vs the 25-O because it balanced out the trumpet much better. The light weight of the trumpet, combined with the all-copper and all-brass body (no nickle) make for a trumpet that has exceptionally easy response. The 25-O was too open a pipe, whereas the 25 was, at least by my playing, the ideal balance & blend.

When I was actively working music industry and educator shows for Kanstul, I would let guys try it with the standard 25 that was on it, and a 25-O that I could attach so that they could do an A/B comparison.

Hands down the preference was the 25 vs the 25-O.

Tim,

A couple questions for you...

1.) (Assuming you tried this configuration) How did your horn play with the 25-O pipe and a square tuning slide?

2.) Did you ever try your horn with a 43 pipe?
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have played one but no I do not own one and did not claim to either. I think my advice is far better since no one knows their product better then Kanstul does. Charles is very very good at talking to people and making sound recommendations about their products and modifications to them! If you doubt me call them yourself! Likewise he could likely talk to Zig directly and I dare say he has forgotten more about the Benge models and their clones then anyone playing one would know! Again if you doubt that advice try calling them. I have sent more then a few people their way for just this type of situation where a slight modification to an existing product was desired and the end result has always been fantastic! I doubt Charles even knows just how many people I send his way for semi-custom Kanstul's. It is not something I normally talk about on the forum.

I have been lucky enough in the last 4 years to get to play a lot of Kanstul products but do not own any currently.

You might notice I did not give my input on how tight or secure it feels in any way! Why? I did not think my one time around the model made enough of an impression in my mind to be relevant to the OP's needs!

Last I checked their was no one at Bach,Conn, or Sonare to call up and ask about their model and the blow and any other possibilities of putting a different leadpipe on it or reversing it????So my post is relevant to the OP because he does not have to take some unknown persons word for something he can call the people that make the horn and talk to them directly! On top of that he can get them to make it differently try that with Sonare or B&S?!?!?!

If I picked up my cell phone right now and called Kanstul I know I will reach a pleasant sounding woman and that if I ask for sales or Charles I will get him unless he is in the manufacturing area. I know he will listen me, treat me with respect and give me his honest opinion! I can not say the same about most companies.

Seeing how the OP can not try one out before he buys I think that my advice is very sound advice!
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trmptz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt.Kirk wrote:
Well I have played one but no I do not own one and did not claim to either. I think my advice is far better since no one knows their product better then Kanstul does. Charles is very very good at talking to people and making sound recommendations about their products and modifications to them! If you doubt me call them yourself! Likewise he could likely talk to Zig directly and I dare say he has forgotten more about the Benge models and their clones then anyone playing one would know! Again if you doubt that advice try calling them. I have sent more then a few people their way for just this type of situation where a slight modification to an existing product was desired and the end result has always been fantastic! I doubt Charles even knows just how many people I send his way for semi-custom Kanstul's. It is not something I normally talk about on the forum.

I have been lucky enough in the last 4 years to get to play a lot of Kanstul products but do not own any currently.

You might notice I did not give my input on how tight or secure it feels in any way! Why? I did not think my one time around the model made enough of an impression in my mind to be relevant to the OP's needs!

Last I checked their was no one at Bach,Conn, or Sonare to call up and ask about their model and the blow and any other possibilities of putting a different leadpipe on it or reversing it????So my post is relevant to the OP because he does not have to take some unknown persons word for something he can call the people that make the horn and talk to them directly! On top of that he can get them to make it differently try that with Sonare or B&S?!?!?!

If I picked up my cell phone right now and called Kanstul I know I will reach a pleasant sounding woman and that if I ask for sales or Charles I will get him unless he is in the manufacturing area. I know he will listen me, treat me with respect and give me his honest opinion! I can not say the same about most companies.

Seeing how the OP can not try one out before he buys I think that my advice is very sound advice!


The point is and many on here conclude that you seem to chime in on topics without ever addressing the OP questions or concerns. You usually go off on some obscure totally unmeaning parallels that have no basis to the OP original issue. This case is NO different! If you were to actually read the OP post and soak it in you would then realize your response made NO sense. The OP wanted to know how THAT particular horn/horns worked as a whole NOT if he could frankenhorn one together. We still have yet to see ANY completed creation of yours or hear one in action. Based on the other posts in this thread including Tim's, it's safe to say that the OP gained the much needed knowledge he was looking for no thanks to you!
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DavesTrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trmptz wrote:
The point is and many on here conclude that you seem to chime in on topics without ever addressing the OP questions or concerns. You usually go off on some obscure totally unmeaning parallels that have no basis to the OP original issue. This case is NO different! If you were to actually read the OP post and soak it in you would then realize your response made NO sense. The OP wanted to know how THAT particular horn/horns worked as a whole NOT if he could frankenhorn one together. We still have yet to see ANY completed creation of yours or hear one in action. Based on the other posts in this thread including Tim's, it's safe to say that the OP gained the much needed knowledge he was looking for no thanks to you!


Thank you! (Cyber handshake in appreciation of your response!)


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Michael Drapp
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:
Michael Drapp wrote:
shofarguy wrote:

In my opinion, the 1601 is easily one of the top 3 ML horns on Kanstul's lineup.

Brian


Hi Brian,

What would be the other two top ML Kanstul's? My guess is the 1001 and the X Model?

Mike


Mike,

Nate hit two of the three I think are great horns. The 1001 isn't an ML horn, but an MLP .464" horn and my favorite Kanstul Bb. I do think the X-Model is a tremendous horn, but I also have to give Tim's choice of the 1537 (especially the fully developed 1537-P) a nod, as it is also very good and well sorted. It's been some time since I had a chance to go through the lineup, so my list of favorite MLs may have changed some, but the top three Bbs are what they are.

Chicago 1001 - MLP
1601 - ML
X-Model - ML
700 - ML

There are so many Kanstul horns that play well for me. It would be much easier to list the few that don't.


Thanks Brian,

I have been thinking about buying a Kanstul for my collection and I will be certain to audition these models. I find the X-Model particularly intriguing; a lot going on in the design and I really like the way that it looks. Your review of this model was priceless and I can't wait to give it a toot. For fun, I'm looking for a trumpet that slots tighter than my Schilke's and I think that this model may be free-blowing enough and still slot well...just the ticket for my occasional orchestral playing opportunities.

Mike
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Michael Drapp
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
I would like to add, just for clarification, that in all my time with Kanstul (24 years), and especially after the 1500TW / 1601 was created, I have not and do not make any commission on any sales of these instruments.


Tim,

I don't believe that any of us doubt your sincerity and integrity. I believe that most of us on this forum really love playing, love talking about our horns and playing experiences, and desire to help each other out without thinking about the commercial consequences. Great posts!!!!

Mike
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richardwy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:
The blow is very much like a Benge 5X, which is pretty equal to Kanstul's 1001 or the CG Benge in feel.


CG & 5X Benges equivalent in feel??????

In '78 - 80, I sold 'em and had a 5X.

That's not what I recall.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Drapp wrote:
trpthrld wrote:
I would like to add, just for clarification, that in all my time with Kanstul (24 years), and especially after the 1500TW / 1601 was created, I have not and do not make any commission on any sales of these instruments.


Tim,

I don't believe that any of us doubt your sincerity and integrity. I believe that most of us on this forum really love playing, love talking about our horns and playing experiences, and desire to help each other out without thinking about the commercial consequences. Great posts!!!!

Mike

Thanks, Mike. Obviously I'm an enormous Kanstul fan. I've also posted really good personal reviews on other brands (Dillon flugels & piccs, for example).

I just wanted everyone to know that I am not compensated by Kanstul for any horn sales or posts. Would be nice if I was...but I'm not. It's all about personal experience in a wonderful career playing the best instrument ever invented.
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