Why can't I get an 'A' like my 'Ab' and 'Bb'?

Souperman · Regular Member Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 70

I've been playing professionally for the last 20+ years, mostly lead and commercial, and this issue has come down to me wanting other opinions, besides my own and others I've asked.

I can play a solid loud 'Ab' fingered 2/3 and a solid loud 'Bb' fingered 2/3 but can't seem to get an 'A' as solid. I can play an 'A' (and use it), but it's just not "there" like the 'Ab' and 'Bb'.....and I've tried all fingerings. I wish I could finger it 2/3, since it seems to work so well with the 'Ab' and 'Bb', but of course it doesn't work.

Any "special" suggestions/opinions out there? Thanks!

By the way, mouthpiece choice does not seem to make much of a difference. I play Warburton 5's (5S, 5ES, etc.) or Hammond Design customs (same size as Warb. 5's) and have tried various backbores - favorites being the Warb. KT and the Kanstul copy of the Reeves Zinger. I've also tried bigger throats but always go back to the 27. What I have not tried are smaller throats.....? My horn is the Getzen 3001 (Doc model) - incredible instrument for the work I do! (It does not have any special valve alignment, btw.)

EdMann · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:47 am Post subject:

I've a very similar problem, and only recent discovered the A. A friend has trouble with the Bb, but a great A. Slow, quiet glissandos work for me, and no, mpc makes little diff., especially if you have the Bb already.

ed

zackh411 · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:47 am Post subject:

I assume you are talking about the second A above the staff (double A). Try first valve only. I used to have the same problem; first valve only it slots like a charm.
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TrentAustin · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:48 am Post subject:

I think a PVA might help if you can play above the "A". I had an old Z Yamaha that wouldn't lock in a Bb and once I got a PVA done it locked in great.

YMMV,

-T
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lipshurt · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:12 am Post subject:

i had that problem for years and years, and it did seem to matter somewhat what horn or mouthpiece i was using, but i always had that problem, so i worked on "A's" pretty regularly, and frustratingly.

It never went away until I gave up on it and stopped working on them entirely.
Then once in a while when it would not matter, like on salsa solos:) i would find myself playing some pretty good A's. Then after a while i would feel pretty comfortable putting one in certain tunes, like the end of "no vale la pena" which you can slide up it like the record. Now I'm pretty comfortable with A's that come up in charts or taking something up, cuz it has a pretty good chance of working. And I NEVER play an A while practicing. Try to put them is places where it doesn't matter so much if you get it. They only come up about once or twice a night on any gig I've ever been on.
I guess what I'm saying s that there is a bit of a mental or "fear" thing going on with 'A's. I always play them 1-2 now. I still dont have the worlds greatest A, but i'm a guy who licked it somewhat after struggling with it. I did pretty much always have the B and C above it though.
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garrett901 · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject:

Same problem here... Except it's the DH-"C". It always want to "slot" to the "D". I would normally try to say use an alternate fingering, but in my case, it's just a matter of doing it again and again, trying to get the "feel" of how the horn wants to play it.

Drives my dog's crazy !!!

Have you tried to use just the third valve?
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Perrodulce · Regular Member Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 15

I use 3rd valve for A's and they slot much better. Every horn is different, but I find the majority of horns I play slot better with 3rd valve.

jiarby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 743

I'm a 3rd Valve "A" guy...

Also check out using 2/3 for the DHC instead of open.

rufflicks · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject:

It's your break. You probably have done this but...Try playing above and push the pitch down while using alternate fingerings, you might get lucky and find something that works. . Maddening isn't it, good luck.

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gchun · Guest

I also use the third valve for A on occasion. Sometimes it just blends better with everyone else. For me, it's easy to get in to pitch with 3 than the 1-2 combination. (I also use 3 for the E about high c, especially when it's a long sustained note.)

You can try doing some lip trills on the 1-2 A. It might help you find where it resonates the most.

garrett901 · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject:

BobList · Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:05 am Post subject:

I've always understood it as the Bb trumpet just doesn't have a good A on it, due to design/physics for some reason.

If a horn happens to have a great A, there are a few notes elsewhere on that horn that are squirrley, but particular to THAT horn.

MP, player, method seem to have no difference.

(and yes, as usual, there a just a few guys out there that can do it on EVERY horn, but they are a big minority)
Bob
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Souperman · Regular Member Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 70

Thank you guys for all your responses. For those who questioned, yes I am talking about double high A. I've been mostly just using 1/2 combination, but I'm going to experiment (and practice) further with different fingerings....especially just 1st valve and also 3rd valve. These extreme notes don't come up too often, but it is nice to "have" them when the occasional Maynard-type tune is called in one of the big bands I play in.

FYI - I play DHC with 2/3 and use 1/3 for B. It's just the darn 'A' I can't seem to settle in on a fingering!

Thanks again!

gospeljohn · Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject:

my teacher uses 123,i can use that,not bad.Also try open as the Colin book has an exercise on this right at the end of the book.That is ok too.
I still want to use the normal 12 fingering but its really hard.
I think Bill Chase used 123 too.
I too , have tried several horns and mpc combos _i,m currently playing a 70,s Olds Recording with a Warburton 6SV and a 5 standard backbore.
I have used a 3 ok,but its too tight with the Olds.I,m practising also with a 4*,a KT and i have a NY too ,but its too bright for me.I,m thinking of going bigger to a standard 7 ,to see if opening up the backbore more will make the A more easy.
I must try using 3 only ,hadn,t seen that anywhere yet.
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JobyMF · Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject:

'hearing' it in the lower octave but playing it in the upper always helped me.
In practice, I've consistently reached to Concert Eb in the 'double' register.
(F above double c
I know for a fact that some horns just dont give it to you, and others seem to flow out in any valve combination.

BobList · Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject:

Yes, I can actually play G and A above double C, but the double A an octave lower is a B^$%CH!!
I gotta try 123... personally, I'd rather use conventional fingerings if I can.. ( 1-2 ). You can confuse yourself if you use too many variants.

Bob
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drewwilkie86 · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:57 am Post subject:

I'm the exact opposite.

My A is easy, as is the Ab, the B, and the C. For the life of me, I cannot get the Bb to sing. No combination of valves and slides has ever worked, regardless of mouthpiece and horn.

Whatever! Doesn't stress me out.
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BobList · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject:

Drew, that was gonna be part of my post, but I was keeping it short... I have observed that guys with the massive, knock em dead A's usually can't buy a Bb or dubba C... weird, huh?
( once again, yes, we all know the one guy who has it all!)
Bob
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