Mouthpieces for C Trumpets

BarryWilson · New Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 2

What's the current thinking on mouthpieces for C trumpets? Use the same as for your Bb or something different? I usually play a Yamaha 16C4 on my Bb but sometimes switch to a Bach 5C. My Yamaha doesn't seem to slot well on my new Eastman C trumpet.
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Barry Wilson
Columbia, SC

Dan O'Donnell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 1912

I play on a Bach 3C size MP on my Bb Trumpet, C Trumpet, Flugelhorn & Cornet.

Specific to my C Trumpet (Kanstul's 1510C) I have HAPPILY played on a Gold plated Bach 3C Megatone MP for many years and will NEVER switch again.

I tried MANY different MPs on my C Trumpet and for ME and MY horn...I found it to meet all of my needs for the music I play.
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RandyTX · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject:

I don't believe there is a "common practice" here. For every player that says they play the same piece on both, there is another player that plays a different one. Most often a very similar piece, but with a slightly larger throat and/or different backbore.

As with any other mouthpiece question, in the end it's what works best for *you*, and not for anyone else that matters.

irith · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 790

Most people seem to use either the same piece they do for Bb, or else the same thing with a bigger throat and/or backbore. I currently use the same piece on both, which has a 24 throat.

If you're unsatisfied with how your C works with your current piece, get another, but have it bored out to a #25 throat to start with. Later on you'll figure out if you want it even more open. Especially as you play Yamaha/Bach, this will be cheap even if it doesn't work out.
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Adam West · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 317

BarryWilson · New Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 2

tptfrbrains · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Mouthpieces for C Trumpets

gord-o · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:32 am Post subject:

I wouldn't blame the horn. If you are new to playing C trumpet, then having problems getting the notes to slot is a problem that everyone has regardless of the horn they play. I had the same problem when I was learning to play C on a Bach. I like the previous suggestions of getting the throat/backbore enlarged. Buy a used Yamaha 16c4 or 5c, send it to a reputable mouthpiece maker and have it enlarged. It's a lot cheaper than getting a new horn, and it is a pretty common tactic.
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Brass and Stringed Instrument Repair

RandyTX · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:03 am Post subject:

B. Scriver · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:02 am Post subject:

The player, horn, and mouthpiece all must match for optimum results. If something changes, something else MAY have to change to maintain that match, and the optimum results. Keep in mind that we can always manipulate the chops but why work so hard?

Example:
If you are getting perfect results with your mouthpiece on your Bb trumpet, should you expect it to play as well on your tighter blowing C trumpet? Maybe...maybe not. Intelligent play testing will tell the tale. Chop manipulation will always be exposed in the GR playing tests as will a mismatch in equipment.

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
(Mouthpieces for Bb trumpets, C trumpets, and a pile of other horns too.)

cheiden · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:55 am Post subject:

Bb players when starting out on the C usually blow the horn completely wrong They usually blow too low in the slot and push their tuning slides way in to compensate and this causes all sorts of slotting and intonations headaches. Things really started to improve for me when started blow significantly higher in the slot and pulling the tuning slide out to a more typicaly position.
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robertgrier · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject:

If your mpcs work well with your Bb horn they will work well with the C horn. It's not the mpcs. It's either not being use to the C trumpet or the horns not good. Have someone who plays a lot of C play the horn for you. Then you will know how to proceed. If it's you then you can just play the horn a lot on a consistant basis. When I was in school our teacher had us play C exclusively our senoir year. We did everything on C. That made a big difference in feeling at home on the horn. Remember we play Bb for many years and that's what the body/ears remember
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Paul.Trumpet · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:03 am Post subject:

You have to find out what mouthpiece your C trumpet likes. Remember C is shorter, larger bore and less stable than a Bb trumpet. IF you take away all that resistance beyond the mouthpiece, what are you doing to compensate?

The rules may not apply - if using Warburton 4MD, I use a 6* backbore in my C trumpet and a 7 on Bb. In GRs I like E65C* in Bb and E65C** in the C, the only difference is in the cup but the tuning improves to superb with the C**.

Currys 3C is pretty good on a C or Bb and his 3BC great but more work. So Bb mouthpieces with a bigger throat than 27 seem to work pretty well - having said that I find the Reeves 42M hits pitch as well - but sounds a bit odd.

Everyone is different - go experiment!

EdMann · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:21 am Post subject:

I've been having fun with this lately. My new C, a Lawler reverse pipe on a .460 bore, actually more open than the Bach CL's I've played, was draining me on the 24 drill Curry 3C. I was using on my previous C, so I started experimenting, first on a Bush W-2 that I've had since college: not bad for orchestra, but the bite is bit rough. My NY Bach 7C (what a rim!) is an excellent fit for say, a church gig where you want a fat but not too bright sound. Then I found a MV Bach 7D copy at Kanstul and tried the 10 bbore (the D cup, when not in my hand,

, is usually a tighter 76), and it's perfect for what I want my C most for, quintet. It's a heavyweight bell, so the D cup gives me a great balance, a light sound and a ton of ease in the upper register without getting shrill, a usual problem on most C's I've owed/tried.

Have fun!

ed

Dale Proctor · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:22 am Post subject:

I went round and round with various mouthpieces for my C trumpet (a 1982 Bach ML 239), trying ones with larger throats and more open backbores, and finally decided it plays the best with the same mouthpiece I use on Bb trumpet - an old Bach 3C.
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Turkle · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject:

Figured I'd weigh in here. I use the Curry 3C. on my Bb trumpets. For my C trumpet, I switch to the Curry 3BC. Same rim, with a deeper cup, bigger throat, and big backbore. It makes the horn absolutely sing (but sounds woofy when used on a Bb).

When I blind tested the mouthpieces for a few fellow musicians, everyone unanimously agreed that my Bbs sounded way better with the 3C (lots of sparkle, full and fat tone) and that my C sounded way better with the 3BC (deep and rich in all registers, with good zing in the upper register). No one had any doubt at all. But I am certain that that is a function of the equipment/player combination, rather than some features that all players must conform to!

As everyone has here said, different players will have different needs, and different equipment will require different solutions. I understand that Vincent Bach himself liked the 10.5C mouthpiece for the C trumpet, which I don't know anyone that uses, so certainly standards and tastes have changed.

Although many posters on this site tend to discourage mouthpiece safaris, I can say from personal experience that when you finally find something that really just "clicks" for you (as the Curry 3. series pieces did for me after years of suffering through dozens of other mouthpieces including a legion of Bach 3Cs), then it is all worth it!
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1962 Connstellation 38B
1964 Connstellation 38A
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1972 Bach Stradivarius C trumpet, CML 239
19?? Yamaha YFH-231 flugelhorn
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robertgrier · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:57 pm Post subject:

Oaul, waht do you find less stable about C trumpets? I don't have a problem with mine.
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An Old Pro
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Paul.Trumpet · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject:

Me neither, but I'm a part time amateur. The large bore short leadpipe C trumpet is unstable relative to the Bb. Slotting is harder. I only play C because I can't transpose. I thought we trumpeters were in concert pitch playing C Major until I was about 40 years old.

Pro trumpet players can control the horn, even sound good on a Kelly 1.5C in their C trumpet. I'd sound crap! So I have had to change the mouthpiece to adapt to the horn due to lacking the strength and skill a pro has built up.

I get the feeling an E65C** was designed to work in a C trumpet but 4MD/6* is unlikely to be used by anybody else as the backbore is smaller than average.

richardwy · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject:

stanton · Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:37 am Post subject:

Been watching this thread for a few days. I've been working with my C trumpet more often lately (229 w Melk leadpipe and tweaks).

My main mouthpiece is a Schilke M3 but I do have a Yamaha 16C4GP which I tried on my C. Is "yuck" a techincal term? Though not my favorite by far, the 16C4 works adequately well on my Bb's, but seems to lose something on my C trumpet. Can't seem to find a reason.

I dunno... It must be just one of those things that you can't explain.

Good luck,
Stanton
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