Unidentified Besson flugel

[Christophomicus]

Hello everyone,

I've lurked around the TH forums for about six months now and always meant to get around to making an account, so here I am. I was wondering if anyone here could help identify my flugelhorn.




(click for full-size)

I bought it about three months ago from eBay (I know, I know...) for a couple of hundred, a bargain for a flugel down here in Aus. It's a Besson... and that's about all I know. Serial number of 283302, and it seems to have a standard taper size. I use a GEWA 5C on it and a modern Jet Tone Leon Merian; both have the same taper and both fit fine. Plays beautifully; a real dark, fluffy flugel sound. Love it.

The one thing that stands out when compared to other flugels I've played is the first valve slide; it's straight and horizontal as opposed to, uh, dipping down. You'll have to excuse my lack of technical terminology...

Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. I realise the pictures are a bit gnaff (knaff? How do you even spell that?), unfortunately I had to use my phone camera because my point'n'shoot is dead at the moment. Let me know if you'd like to see any more of it!

[Christophomicus]

Really, no response? Help a budding young enthusiast out, TH...

I've attached a few more photos taken with a proper camera, but they're arguably worse than my iPhone's; couldn't figure out how to get the darn thing to focus properly...













I forgot to mention earlier that it has Amado spit valves. You can see in the last photo the strange first valve slide I was talking about in my first post.
_________________
-B&S Challenger 3137/2, B&H 400, Getzen 300, Getzen Eterna, Jupiter JTR-516
-Bach Stradivarius 184ML, Yamaha YCR2330S, Clipptertone Malta, Besson Imperial Flugelhorn, ACB Doubler's Flugel
-Knight USA Euphonium

[Mark Curry]

[JonathanM]

The Benge Flugelhorn series from the 60's or so had a first valve slide that ran horizontal with a third that ran vertical. A bit different than your horn but somewhat similar.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Bb Stradivarius 37, Olds Super
Olds Special Cornet
King Trombone
Yamaha Flute
Yamaha MO8 Keyboard

Mouthpieces: Marcinkiewicz, Curry, Kanstul, Bach

[Christophomicus]

I've played on a Bach Stradivarius, an old Holton and an Olds my tutor had, but none of them have compared to this great little horn. I'm not used to playing flugel (mainly a trumpet player (which is kind of a given now that I think about it)), but the tone that comes out of this is better than any other I've played. Beautiful. It certainly 'feels' older than most of the horns I own... or perhaps that's just the nostalgia...

The leadup to the bell (that's the bore, right? I'm a little... a lot uneducated on the technical jargon of brass, but willing to learn ) seems a lot bigger than most flugels I've played. I've done a lot of searching for Besson flugels but never turned up one that looked like mine. All I have to go on is that the seller said it was a professional horn.

Thanks for the advice thus far, Mark. I'll definitely see if I can find out something more with this new knowledge in hand.

JonathonM, thanks! I'll have a squiz into that. Any excuse to look up trumpets and flugels and whatnot...
_________________
-B&S Challenger 3137/2, B&H 400, Getzen 300, Getzen Eterna, Jupiter JTR-516
-Bach Stradivarius 184ML, Yamaha YCR2330S, Clipptertone Malta, Besson Imperial Flugelhorn, ACB Doubler's Flugel
-Knight USA Euphonium

[FrankM]

Didn't respond to this when it was first posted because I didn't know quite what to say. You've got a nice instrument there. The trigger is doubtless a later addition. I have had two of these in their B&H Imperial incarnation. Here is a pic of mine. Not at all unusual here in the UK. Standard issue to military bands back in the day. Both of mine were ex Royal Marines.

[Christophomicus]

[qcm]

[Christophomicus]

[FrankM]

Hello Christo,
The Amado water keys were probably added later when the trigger was added, which becomes necessary on the 3rd slide & changed on the bell pipe to match. Both instruments are a similar age. When B&H took over Besson, similar lines with interchangable parts were made concurently, up to the early 1970's, when the Sovereigns were introduced. I don't know the mouthpieces you are using but would suggest you try a Wick 3 or 2 (two shank sizes - F & FL). A beautiful rich sonorous tone. Might seem big, but so is a Flugal.

Cheers, Frank

[Bob Stevenson]

This is from the early-mid 1960's and someone has spent money on it,...the amados and trigger were later additions and it has been nicely refinished.

These were good instruments in their day,....you can find out more by the first three digits of the serial number (under the bell section abreast of the valves?) aand which type of vavles it has, ie., black/white plastic guide ring with exposed helical spring,...or, enclosed valves with suspended springs in hangers.

[Christophomicus]

[Bob Stevenson]

B&H aquired Besson immediately after WWII, but both factories essentially remained independant. Besson was by far the most prestigous brass make but B&H offered all types of wind instruments and military band sets etc. During the late 50's and onwards there was some co-operation between the two factories (both in North London just a few miles apart) and some inter use of components but the Besson design dept remained independant.

In 1975 B&H decided to kill off Besson totally and all of the product range along with the Besson design dept. to great consternation and anger of more or less the whole British brass band movement.

Circa 1990 B&H attempted to give it's own brass range some urgent and vital 'cache' by disinterring the 'Besson' brand and slapping it on it's own brass,...however, none of these instruments had or have had, ANY Besson input, nor indeed do they look like real Bessons. B&H thus a company so inept that it managed to fold Besson twice!

[Flugelnut]

Christophomicus: regarding your query about the impact of the first valve slide being horizontal vs. vertical, IMO soundwise there is no difference (I'll yield to those better informed about accoustics). There is an advantage in condensation management however, the horizontal slide will collect none or very little because most players play with the bell slightly downwards.
In the case of the Benges, they have a first slide saddle to help with intonation. A vertical slide would need a trigger to do that, which is costlier to construct.
My 1982 Benge 5 has a factory-installed third valve trigger as well though, somebody over there (Zig Kanstul?) must have felt it would end up with a player who can use all the tuning help available.
But seriously, I hardly use either of them because the horn is so easily bent in tune with the embouchure.

[qcm]

[Christophomicus]

[GordonH]

I have one of these. Mine has hexagonal valve caps. It has a typical small bore flugel sound. I got mine from someone who does band room clearances and then services the instruments before selling them. It cost me about the same as a cheap chinese instrument and came in a new case. Valves and slides are nice and tight. Valve action is nice and smooth.

It doesn't seem to need a trigger. I think the third slide is slightly longer than one with a trigger would be, and the slots are wide enough to be able to play it in tune.








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[GordonH]

[gchun]

[GordonH]