Ultimate Lead Trumpet

[Robert Rizzo]

These Trumpets in my opinion, in combination with great Lead players of course, are to be considered important in regard to the history of lead trumpet sound:

Classics

Conn 38B
Schilke B6
Bach 25/37 and 43/72*
Calicchio 1s2

Modern

Yamaha Shew/Bergeron*
Eclipse
Hub Van Laar Chuck Findley*
Jupiter 1600i

Big blowing horns*

I am sure I am missing many, especially in the second list. But I would be happy, were sound/tone is concerned playing lead on any in the first list...
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Robert Rizzo

[Michael Drapp]

[Mikester]

I spent 15 years splitting the lead book in a big band. Recently “retired” from it.

Owned and performed with a bunch of horns.

Some of them are: Bach 37, Lawler 21LS 26B 26B-STS TL5 TL6R, WT 2-silver 1-gold, Callet SC-0.464” SC-0.460” Jazz Sima, Schilke S32-gold S42F-gold, Yamaha 6310Z 8310Z-Malone-Modified 8335LA, Prototype gold Destino 5-star from Doc’s collection, Tulsa-Callichio 1sZ3rl 1s2.

Many of the horns above (and others) were sold after the 1s2 arrived. This is the one the big band directory liked the best. Unfortunately, I got it after our 2nd CD was recorded.

I took it to alumni marching band last year. When I heard a recording, the high F#’s and G’s cut through the 300 member band.

Now, I have the 1s2, but the Yamaha Vizzutti gets the most use for all around playing.

If I were buying again for big band lead, would start with a Tulsa or newer Callichio.

[chloebh]

If you plan on coming to ITG next week, stop by Fred Powell's table. I don't think you'll regret it.
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'11 Powell Classic II Prototype
'72 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
'88 Antoine Courtois C129ML
'83 Getzen Eterna 940S Picc
'68 Conn Victor 80A Cornet


"I should be sorry if I only entertained them; I wished to make them better."
-G. Handel

[MarkZ]

An early '70s Getzen Severisen would a great value for lead playing. Maybe $500-750 range? At that price, it's easy to buy, try, and flip if you don't like it after a long term test.

[HERMOKIWI]

The "ultimate" lead trumpet question is very complicated because there is no single unanimously accepted definition of what constitutes the "ultimate" lead trumpet sound. Did Bill Chase produce the "ultimate" lead trumpet sound or did Conrad Gozzo produce the "ultimate" lead trumpet sound or did someone else produce the "ultimate" lead trumpet sound? It's all a matter of situations, styles, tastes, etc.

My take on the OP's view of what he wants is the "peel the paint off the wall and project over everything" version of the lead trumpet sound. So, if my take is accurate I recommend that the OP start with the Calicchio 1s/2, a horn with an undeniable and long standing reputation for playing lead, and use that as the standard of comparison. This doesn't mean that the OP will end up preferring the Calicchio 1s/2. He may end up preferring something else. By using the Calicchio 1s/2 as his standard of comparison, however, he will be starting his search at an extremely high level.

Ultimately, what works best for you and what produces the sound you want depends on a long list of human and mechanical variables. You have to do a lot of testing and hope that your testing is valid, that is, you didn't have an unusually good example of a horn or an unusually bad example of a horn or an unusually good day or unusually bad day when testing a particular horn that invalidly influences you one way or another.

It can be very difficult to conduct truly consistent and valid testing from horn to horn to horn from day to day to day.
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HERMOKIWI

"The problem with the trumpet is that, when you open the case, you don't know if you're looking at a friend or a can of worms."

"There it is, surrounded by velvet, just waiting to mess somebody up."

[plankowner110]

From your description- Benge 7X perhaps? Very rare .470 bore
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Schilke B1 trumpet
(Schilke Symphony M5C mpc.)
King "2003" cornet
Conn 1FR "Vintage One" flugel

[Arpeggio]

A few thoughts from playing a few horns -- please see what you think and note that we trumpet players are quite a diverse lot.

Olds Super (Los Angeles) -- slots are like steps on a stairway. Accurate, clear and incredibly in tune. Meaty and robust.

Claude Gordon Benge -- a great lead horn. More flexible slots and plenty of electric sizzle. Beautiful, rich overtones.

Schilke X3 -- nice blow and completely solid in all respects. One can count on it for lead, every time. It never lets you down.

Canby Calicchio 1S/2 -- slots differently than the CG Benge; neither better nor worse, just differently. A perfect lead horn, with incandescent electric sizzle when you want to make it happen.

Burbank Benge 2x -- more flexible slotting. Incandescent electric sizzle down to sweet and lyrical, whatever you want, however you want to play it. Amazingly capable horn. If I could have only one horn to play, it would be this one.

Each of these horns, to me, is solid, dependable and able to part the hair of the guy in the back row of the audience. Can't go wrong with any of them. We're truly living in an age of plenty when it comes to killer horns.

[Fred Cantu]

If your interested in the ultimate lead trumpet I would try a Doctor Valve Schilke s42 Conversion. Though I don't think this trumpet should get labeled as just a lead trumpet because I think it's the ultimate trumpet. This horn does excel at lead playing. If you have ever tried a Schilke s42 this horn possess the same great characteristics with many enhancements. I think his conversion makes the horn slot better, the sound is fuller, the resistance feels better, and the low register is much more open. Steve aka Doc Valve has a few right now at his shop if you get the chance check one out.

[giakara]

[zx10-ninja]

Hello all!!! I'm headed to ITB next friday to play as many horns mentioned as I can. Will let you know how it goes...THX for your input and time!!!! Rob
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Vintage One Flugel Horn, MF ST302 (.468), MF ST305 "Banana Horn" (.484), L.A. Benge 7X LP (.470), Marcinkiewicz CG-1 LE #24 (.468) , Custom Warburton Mpc

[Mikester]

Good horn huntiing zx10-ninja. Be sure to try a Hub Van Laar Chuck Findley model.

As for the TL5, tone for me was thick and less high overtones than I wanted. Was a very good horn, but I had a 1sZ/3rl at the time. The Callichio was a better fit for me.

I once had a Lawler 26BL the just lit up on high G. Wish I still had that one.

[giakara]

[Karel]

Try the Adams A5-FG. Great horn.

[chierholzer]

If you can find one in the US, I would seriously try a Yamaha Myashiro Model.
I tried one at the Midwest B&O, in Chicago, show last year. Yamaha brought one just for me to try. It really cooks in the upper register. I play an MF 306, i have had for 20 years, and could not overblow the Myashiro.

[Capt.Kirk]

I play trumpet and modify them. Have I played lead before yes do I play lead now no! Now I only play for myself and occasionally at my Church mostly Christmas and Easter services. When I play at church I am the only trumpet usually.

My Grandfather was a huge Big Band, Dixie Land fan and Bix Biederbeck(sp) fan so I have played more of that style of music then I care for myself as have the other 4 grandchildren that played trumpet.

For the record I mostly play Jazz for myself not that it matter in this discussion because what I currently play music style wise really has no bearing on this discussion.

I currently have 3 different Olds based horns 2 with the traditional Bb Olds Bell profile in varying degree's of modification and one Olds Opera Belled horn. I also have a Bronze Olds C bell that is basically the classic Olds bell in .462 bore I think it is, slightly heavier material and bronze. I also have a German made "poly-bore" that I have fitted an Olds bell that I have hand thinned the bell flair with 1000grit sand paper. I have tried now Bach 25,43,7, LA Benge, CG, Accusonic leadpipes just off the top of my head on Olds Horns.

So when it comes to what you can or can not do well with an traditional Olds Bell profile I fell comfortable calling myself a Subject Matter Expert. I have more trigger time on the Olds bell then anyone else not building trumpets for sale. I have tried more leadpipes on the Olds Bell again then prob. anyone not building horns for a living. I doubt many of you guys have the patients to sand a bell flair down by hand with 800 - 1000 grit sand paper and a bowel of water mounting and un-mounting it as you thin it to hear how it sounds. This is what I do instead of watching tv.

If you want a fantastic lead trumpet or the classic French sound you are hard pressed to pick a better bell for the job then the original Olds Bell profile. This bell also mic's up very very well. Their is a reason why Olds Super, Recording,Mendez are still sought after. Likewise their is a reason why so much was recorded with them from Movie Soundtracks to Jazz to Jingles. So History agree's with me when talking about the most recorded bell profile in Movie History it is the Olds bell.

Of course you could have Kanstul build you one like I recommend then play it and show us just how dreadful it is as a lead trumpet. I am sure the $1000 or $1200 ish price to do a 700 or 900 series this way is like wise just too much for such a functional mission specific tool made in America.

Plain and simple the Olds bell is a proven winner when it comes to lead. The only real question is how thick you want it and what leadpipe you want with it ie 43,7,25-0,CG,Benge,R45X.

So stay on target the thread is about lead trumpet selection not how recent or well I play lead! LOL In fact last I checked no one seemed to are that Zig Kanstul does not play an instrument at all and the late Calcchio could not play an instrument at all either yet people sure like their trumpets in spite of this fact! Again stay on target and stop trying to sling mud or make this about me!
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The only easy day was yesterday!

[Ed Kennedy]

[adagiotrumpet]

For lead, I prefer a Schilke B3, which is a large bore. I also have an X3 that I like a lot, but the big bell doesn't seem to cut through a big band as well. The B2 is the same horn basically as the B3 only with a ML bore. Capt. Kirk seems to like an Olds bronze C trumpet bell. How could I have been so wrong all these years?

[Brad361]

[sounds7]

+1 Calicchio 1s2s
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Calicchio 1s2
Olds Recording
Courtois 301 C
Courtois 311ML
Harrelson Summit Art One
Harrelson Flugel
http://www.briangraber.com