What ever happened to Bach?

Ubungstickle · Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject: What ever happened to Bach?

So what ever happened to the Bach strike thing? Are Bach horns still considered to be high quality, because it has been 7 years since the strike and surely they might once again return to their glory.

I am asking this because I decided I don't like my C trumpet. Although it's the player not the horn, I think my horn doesn't have that sparkle or brightness in sound. It's a great horn, I've just fallen out of love with it, a little.

So like my teacher and many other great trumpet players, maybe I'll find a Bach C trumpet. But are they still uber quality? Yamahas (even if some people may dislike them) I believe are really tightly screwed together, super quality. But will a modern C trumpet Bach be as good quality?

I know it's the player, not the equipment and the trumpet is just a medium for a player, but I want to make this switch, and I was just wondering.

Thank you, community
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david mickley · Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject:

I have heard that the post strike Bachs are ever bit as good as the pre-strike horns and the build is more consistant now. I haven't played any post strike Bachs [just not my cup of tea] but have talked to those that have and they have all said good things about the new Bachs. of course you must play before you buy. Good Luck.
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rockford · Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject:

Bach has been doing a lot of creative things over the past several years in bringing back older designs and modernizing their production facilities. Many of the long time employees are still there or have returned but some have not for a variety of reasons. The best thing to do is try them out and don't rush into a decision on any brand or model. Too many people just order instruments over the Internet or mail order and ultimately end up disappointed. It's a big purchase. Take your time. Good luck.
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CRoberts8 · Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: What ever happened to Bach?

jvand678 · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 469 Location: TX

I can definitely vouch for the quality coming out of the Bach factory right now. Some colleagues and I just took a tour of the Bach factory in April and picked 7 C (229/25H) trumpets and 8 Bb's (standard 37's) out of a lineup of around 18 of each. We were very pleased with the way the horns played and Tedd was absolutely fantastic! We were looking for similar sounding horns for our universities which made the quest far more difficult. We did however have some horns that absolutely would NOT work and several that had a decent scale or fantastic sound but had some inconsistencies in sound or didn't hold together at louder volumes.

I would highly recommend in your situation, to visit Dillon where there are plenty of horns to choose from in every model (especially given your location). Bring a good set of ears and a horn that plays the way you want it to and get after it.

jv
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irith · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 791

+1 on the Dillon recommendation as well as the tweak recommendation. You're too close to Yamaha Artist Services or whatever to not take advantage of it.

Every post-strike Bach I've played has been pretty good, and they seem more consistent as well. However, Bach probably doesn't really compare to Yamaha's level of consistency and fit/finish. Bach trumpets are still great players by and large - there's a reason so many people use them, as you seem to realize.
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Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5072

Well for all you "Buy American, Support the Union" types Conn/Selmer/Bach/Steinway broke the back of the Union and replaced a lot of them. The ones that came back came back for less pay per hour and such. That did not stop Bach from raising the prices as soon as the strike was over........Is that what you meant?

The other problem is that Bach got bought out by Selmer or sold how ever you want to look at it. The only good thing Selmer did was go back to the longer pre-short leadpipe designs. They have changed a lot of things but all of them have been to make the horn cheaper to produce......No double valve case, no fancy round sculpted ferules on the ends of tubes, cheaper brace design, changed the geometry of the bell bow and main slide so many times over the years it is not even funny.

Even I would not say they are not a decent pro-horn because they are. I do not think they are worth 1/2 the asking price for them new now. I think they are nothing more then a cheap clone of the originals that built the Bach reputation and the Bach Stradivarius name. I do like many of their leadpipe and bell profiles but today their are so many companies that make a clone of the Bach some of them are better then the current Bach horns.

So nothing wrong with them if you like paying more then you should for the product you are getting. Their sound is the gold standard in Bb and C in the USA by which all other things are judged to be better or worse or darker or brighter etc........

The market is so flooded with used Bach Strad's in the 180/37-25 combo I think it is unwise to buy a new horn in that configuration!!!! If you want a Bach consider the 72, 43 or 65 bell and 25-0,43,7 leadpipe combo's.......Not as many of those flooding the market! On top of that the 72 bell is finaly coming into fashion so you are seeing a lot more of those and clones of the 72 bell by semi-custom or full on custom builder's.

The above is all biased mind you as we all have bias. The difference is I am not selling anything and I am not pulling the party line because I like to be a parrot and can not think for myself.

If you can play test before you buy if not do make sure you ask about return policy. It is usualy like 6 days or something like that but always ask in advance. Ask about any restocking fee's as well!

Good luck!!
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Jerry · Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject:

If I got this right, you own a Yamaha Chicago C that you don't really like, and you live in NYC. Yes? If I got this right, then:

I would contact Wayne Tanabe at the Yamaha Atelier in Manhattan. He's the guy that can tweak your horn anyway you want. He's very talented and a very nice guy. Arrange to take the horn to him, play it for him, and let him know what you would like different. I'll bet you that he can get that horn to sparkle.

Yamaha NY telephone number, Wayne's direct email address, and other information here: http://www.yamaha.com/yasi/bandorchestra/contact.html?cat_id=5202023&tab=contact

fredo · Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:48 pm Post subject:

I've tried a new 37 from a friend a few months ago : fantastic horn !

I do not understand why the Capt do not like them !

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camel · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:19 am Post subject:

Retlaw · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:11 am Post subject:

Mike Lockman · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:35 am Post subject:

I am a big fan of Bach. Before or after strike. I think all the hype about quality is just hype.
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rockford · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:55 am Post subject:

Brad361 · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:33 am Post subject:

Haplo · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:37 am Post subject:

I have a pre-strike 37 that I've had since high school, which still plays well and always had a great sound. Now, my main axe is a 3 year old 43. I did have the valves aligned, but other than that it's bone stock. It is a great example of a great bach. It is not as easy to play as a yamaha or a shires, but no Bach ever is. I did swap out the leadpipe on my 229 (pre-strike), but that was because the 25H was just plain too big for me, no fault of the horn.

I find that almost every equipment choice comes down to a compromise. I have never found a horn or mouthpiece that had it all. In the case of a Bach trumpet you trade the user-friendliness of a Yamaha (or other great horn) for that rich sound with lots of character.

There are lots of folks making great horns today. You just need to decide what works for you and what you are really looking for.

-rob

cmatice · Regular Member Joined: 23 May 2012 Posts: 73

This is my personal opinion from what I have seen/play. New Elkhart Bachs are better than old Elkhart Bachs. However Mt Vernon horns are the best.
I bought a post strike horn brand new a couple of years ago and it is a fantastic horn. I played my friends 1970ish Bach strad and it was good but in my opinion not as good as mine (could be a bit of bias though). Last year I bought a Mt Vernon Strad and it is the most beautiful horn I have ever played. However, both other Bachs are close runner ups. It seems that Bachs are perfect for me.
Anyway, I sort of rambled. Bottom line is that there will be good and bad horns from every period so try to play one before you buy it.

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 1039

Being in NYC, you owe it to yourself to visit Wayne Tanabe at the Yamaha Artists shop. If you have issues with your instrument he can very likely solve them.

afp · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:54 am Post subject:

I just don't get why so many on TH think it is okay to bash the Capt. Then again, our society has become a very intolerant of non PC ideas and values, and perhaps that intolerance has rubbed off here on TH...............

I say agree with the Capt, disagree with him, challenge him, refute him, or ignore him. However, do not insult him. When someone does insult him, it makes the Capt look more credible and makes the insulter look petty and bitter.

BTW, I do not always agree with him.
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trmptz · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:08 am Post subject:

TrumpetMD · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:09 am Post subject:

I've shared this story a couple times already....

When I picked up the trumpet again after 20 years, I went on an extended trumpet safari, looking to replace my Bach Strad 43*. Over the course of a year or so, I play dozens of trumpet, including about two dozen Bachs. Most were "True Bach" horns, made after the strike with certain quality improvements (according to Bach's website). A few were pre-strike (around 2001), although I'm not sure how they were being sold as new in 2009.

All of the Bachs I played were great. I had preferences, of course. But they were all on par with the Getzens, Schilkes, Yamahas, and Kanstuls I tried.

In the end, I stayed with my 1971 Bach Strad 43*, which Kanstul recently refurbished for me. But I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a new Bach, if the need would ever come up.

Mike
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