New breed of orchestral trumpet player

robert_white · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1539

Stop paying so much attention to the trumpet player (or the brass for that matter). You'll enjoy the music much more!

Dan in Sydney · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Glenn

poochie · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:24 am Post subject:

To quote Jim Pandolfi"you can play every note and still miss them all".

gringoloco · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:20 am Post subject:

Tom Rolfs is obviously at the top of his field and an inspirational player, but this thread touches exactly on what is so special about Charlie Schleuter.
If you want to talk about a clear individual style, I think he is probably the best recent example. Of course, the number of people winning jobs these days on Monettes and using his particular approach to phrasing and articulation does point to exactly what you mention as a problem. Lack of diversity.
So, let's do something about it. Let's all make commitment to taking chances musically and sonically.
We should also make it illegal for any music director to buy a CD.
Rob

tubbs831 · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:56 am Post subject:

I definitely get what you're saying about Charlie, but I believe Tom Rolfs also has a distinctive style. I've heard some very special concerts at Symphony hall the past few years. He's got a different sound than a lot of other orchestral players and he doesn't play it safe imo.

Peter Bond · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:24 am Post subject:

MrClean · Last edited by MrClean on Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total

tptplayer · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 215

Amen,Jim.Thanks for a wonderful reply from someone who does it, as does the un- named colleague. I remember working with him 6-8 years ago thinking quietly" yep, a bit of seasoning and he's gonna be the real deal". As for the rest of the argument, I feel that many orchestras do sound more alike these days, and miss the old differences in nuance. That, however,has nothing to do with the spectacular heights the new generation of trumpet playing has achieved, and has everything to do with the small amount of great conductors making their imprint on the music.
My 5¢

Nonsense Eliminator · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject:

Bravo, Jim.
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TrentAustin · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject:

Amen Jim!
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Vin DiBona · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject:

Add another BRAVO for Jim.
Herseth, Voisin, Johnson, Vacchiano, Adelstein, and all the other greats of the past generation never laid waste to a woodwind section or guffawed at a conductors palm. Neither they nor their musical directors would have tolerated such playing.
Listen to the fabulous Gabrielli recording with the Chicago, Cleveland, and Philadelphia brass sections. Without looking, it can be difficult to tell exactly who is playing.
R. Tomasek

andrewmccandless · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject:

Here is what I'm wondering?
Last night we played Shostakovich 11 here in Toronto. In the midst of really going for two big solos I had two really big cacks. Other than that I played the piece pretty well. Ok pitch, rhythm etc... On Wednesday night I had no cacks and went for it equally. So which one was better? Does this make me unique, or not unique? (Judging by the look on the conductors face, the cacks were very unique.) If I had gone for it less and gotten the notes on Thursday would that have been better or worse? As you can see I'm a little confused and I'd like to get this straightened out in my mind for future performances and recordings.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Best,
Andrew
ps. By the way we just released a live recording of this piece this week on the TSO live label. If anyone is interested I think you can get it on Itunes. I warn you in advance that you may be forced to turn it off half through...

TrptSTP · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject:

Did anyone read the Mark Gould article in the latest ITG journal? I believe this is what the OP is getting at here. Mr. Gould's article was about Mel Broiles and some of the legendary tidbits that people usually ask about. The article ends with Mr. Gould making remarks about the state of trumpet playing in terms of personal style. This is along the lines of what is happening in this post.

I think the musicality versus accuracy argument could be boiled down to people wanting to hear musicians (not just trumpet players) play with abandon. It also just happens that the style of playing portrayed as positive in this thread also often correlates to older individuals who were or still are ridiculously good trumpet players and musicians. That older style of playing is a different sound. As with most things in life and art, different is often translated to "bad" or threatening.

Opinions are fine. But at the end of the day, the people in the big orchestras are there (usually as I understand it) because they are top notch, and arguably the best at what they do. Having opinions as to who is your favorite is fine, making digs about someone in a major orchestra is something altogether different...

tpter1 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 874

Wow. Jim, that was the post of the century.

I’m not "in the ring” so to speak, but I have been to a few concerts as a listener. I notice a huge difference from group to group, player to player. I do not see the evidence of loss of identity. As far as risky playing goes... I’ve heard ppp playing that would make you soil yourself. THAT is risk taking.
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StupidBrassObsession · Veteran Member Joined: 25 Mar 2012 Posts: 341

Melbourne Symphony Orchestra (Australia) has a great principal trumpet player called Jeff Payne who takes no prisoners.

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 3963

The "raising of the bar" is a by-product of ever fewer orchestral positions available. Back in 50's or 60's the best musicians were spread out wider because more orchestras existed. If you did put together the best players into each section of a 50's or 60's orchestra, you would get the result as good or better than today. Maurice Andre, anyone? Rafael Mendez?

bagmangood · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject:

The way it was once described to me is that there is a more common sound concept (hey Bud, how're you doing?) amongst the American orchestras.

Each player sounds like themselves, but they're working with an American sound. Blame Bach for making really good sounding horns for many years, blame Bud for being so good, blame whoever you want, but the point was that we as a nation are getting a national sound. This is probably helped by just how available sound clips and full pieces of any orchestra you want because of CDs and now the internet

There isn't as much of a Chicago vs. Philly vs. Boston sound anymore, its an American one. This isn't necessarily a bad thing (though I guess we'll never have another Ghitalla)

robert_white · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1539

Vin DiBona · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:24 am Post subject:

I would like to clarify one point of my previous post.
Those fabulous players on the Gabrielli did have different sounds, yet on that recording they matched and blended with each other with skills only the best of the best have.
R. Tomasek