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"new" water key design?


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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: "new" water key design? Reply with quote

Ran across this today. Anyone know anything about them?



http://www.pollardwaterkey.com
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fuzzyjon79
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spoke with the gentleman that invented/produced this new water key/spit valve. I'll see if I can get some more information. They are brand new.
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homebilly
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

$39.99 a pop..........

that is STEEP!
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought so too. They can't be cheap to manufacture. Perhaps they will come down if they sell enough and can leverage economies of scale.
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Brassworks
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Pollard Water Key Reply with quote

The Pollard Water Key is not the same as an Amado. If you read the description on the website, you will see that the only similarity is the "press button" operation.

It is harder to manufacture, and each has to be tested for seal after the assembly. It is made in the USA, and is a precision manufactured component, not a cheap mass produced product. We are in the beginning stages of marketing, and the first production run will be completed by March 1st, 2013.

The Pollard Waterkey has several years of thought and development behind it, so just another waterkey is definitely not what this is, there would be no point. The price may be adjusted after we get numbers up, but this is a premium precision product, worth of the most expensive horns being manufactured today. www.pollardwaterkey.com
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Retlaw
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

News to me.... If they work as described which I am sure they will then they could really take off. At least they don't look as big and ugly as the Saturn....
I always feel the lever types are very old fashioned with "corks" ! But I do like the trombones style..they are classy. I like Amado but there is no question there is room for improvement.....This just might be it.

If they are an improvement and really work I don't think $40 is expensive.... I would imagine bulk buyers would get a deal ......

Well done for these guys trying to improve our lot...

Walter
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davidkoch
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If these pan out, it could work really well! $40 is a little steep for me right now though. I can buy amados for $8 a pop from my source and if I keep them clean I have no issues. (Screw back so they're really easy to maintain)
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trumpaholic
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The amado's offered for sale by Doug Teeter, aka oldtooter, are superb and come in silver plate as well as brass. Ascetically nice and function really well. Back screws off for easy access to the piston. The best I have ever used!!!
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Retlaw wrote:
News to me.... If they work as described which I am sure they will then they could really take off. At least they don't look as big and ugly as the Saturn....
I always feel the lever types are very old fashioned with "corks" ! But I do like the trombones style..they are classy. I like Amado but there is no question there is room for improvement.....This just might be it.

If they are an improvement and really work I don't think $40 is expensive.... I would imagine bulk buyers would get a deal ......

Well done for these guys trying to improve our lot...

Walter



Ahhh. I kind of like the way my Saturn keys look!
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lgt0412
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never had a problem with my amados. But, like the rest of the parts of my many horns, I keep them well maintained. Just like I wouldn't let my tuning slide become frozen or leave crumbling old corks and felts on my pistons. Anything mechanical is eventually going to require some maintenance. For me the price difference would be a deterrent. But I don't blame anyone for trying to come up with an idea of their own and trying to market it. Good luck with the waterkey!!
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Mark Curry
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Pollard Water Key Reply with quote

Brassworks wrote:
The Pollard Water Key is not the same as an Amado. If you read the description on the website, you will see that the only similarity is the "press button" operation.

It is harder to manufacture, and each has to be tested for seal after the assembly. It is made in the USA, and is a precision manufactured component, not a cheap mass produced product. We are in the beginning stages of marketing, and the first production run will be completed by March 1st, 2013.

The Pollard Waterkey has several years of thought and development behind it, so just another waterkey is definitely not what this is, there would be no point. The price may be adjusted after we get numbers up, but this is a premium precision product, worth of the most expensive horns being manufactured today. www.pollardwaterkey.com


Right on, Jerry!

I'm always on the lookout for the better mousetrap! I sent a gmail to you for a pre-order. Excited to get them!

Best of Luck on this venture!

mc
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davidkoch
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpaholic wrote:
The amado's offered for sale by Doug Teeter, aka oldtooter, are superb and come in silver plate as well as brass. Ascetically nice and function really well. Back screws off for easy access to the piston. The best I have ever used!!!


I use these when I put amados on a horn.



This design does look promising. Is the $40 for one key, or is it for a pair?
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Brassworks
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

Those folks interested in the price only are missing the point. This is not a 5 dollar product, it is a Monette compared to a Bundy, a Rolls Royce compared to a Ford Pinto. The Amados are spit out by the thousands, these are not, and will not for some time. The precision alone makes it worth more.

If you love your Amado, stay with it. I've owned several multi-thousand dollar instruments that have the best Amado's available, and if they worked so great, I wouldn't have spent the time, money, etc to develop a better product. It works, every time. I have yet to have an Amado that didn't stick at some time.

The price can come down with volume, yes, and I have already received two multi-unit orders, and they were quoted. If you need more than a couple, shoot me an email. But I won't apologize for the quality and the superiority of my product.

Thanks to all who have remarked, I really appreciate it!
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veery715
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure looks like a good design to me. Self-compensating for wear over time too. If the world beats a psychopath to your door, Pogo will allow that the price will come down as demand goes up.

But, precision or not, it seems a bit steep.
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lgt0412
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having no need for a better waterkey i can only compare it monetarily to the other available options. And having no experience with your product I in no way judge it based on its merit. It may, in deed, be the best thing since sliced bread. I hope,for you, it is. And, as you said, you obviously had enough problems that you saw a need to develop something you felt was better. As someone who has never had a problem I don't see the value at 4 times the price. That's just based on my personal experience though. Like I said in my first post whether i need it or not i hope youre very successful with this product!!
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davidkoch
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

Brassworks wrote:
Those folks interested in the price only are missing the point. This is not a 5 dollar product, it is a Monette compared to a Bundy, a Rolls Royce compared to a Ford Pinto. The Amados are spit out by the thousands, these are not, and will not for some time. The precision alone makes it worth more.

If you love your Amado, stay with it. I've owned several multi-thousand dollar instruments that have the best Amado's available, and if they worked so great, I wouldn't have spent the time, money, etc to develop a better product. It works, every time. I have yet to have an Amado that didn't stick at some time.

The price can come down with volume, yes, and I have already received two multi-unit orders, and they were quoted. If you need more than a couple, shoot me an email. But I won't apologize for the quality and the superiority of my product.

Thanks to all who have remarked, I really appreciate it!



I'm not trying to be negative here, but it might be easier to get the ball rolling if the prices were lower. The response here is that it's kind of a steep price. In the long run, I think having a lower price would help. Simple business.
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Smokin Joe
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The price doesn't bother me one bit, good luck with your endeavor.

Joe
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Mark Curry
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

davidkoch wrote:
Brassworks wrote:
Those folks interested in the price only are missing the point. This is not a 5 dollar product, it is a Monette compared to a Bundy, a Rolls Royce compared to a Ford Pinto. The Amados are spit out by the thousands, these are not, and will not for some time. The precision alone makes it worth more.

If you love your Amado, stay with it. I've owned several multi-thousand dollar instruments that have the best Amado's available, and if they worked so great, I wouldn't have spent the time, money, etc to develop a better product. It works, every time. I have yet to have an Amado that didn't stick at some time.

The price can come down with volume, yes, and I have already received two multi-unit orders, and they were quoted. If you need more than a couple, shoot me an email. But I won't apologize for the quality and the superiority of my product.

Thanks to all who have remarked, I really appreciate it!



I'm not trying to be negative here, but it might be easier to get the ball rolling if the prices were lower. The response here is that it's kind of a steep price. In the long run, I think having a lower price would help. Simple business.


to be fair-

have you ever looked at retail price for a Bach Stradivarius water key assembly (complete)?
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Brassworks
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

The price for Bach Strad Lever keys is very high. Mouthpieces with NO moving parts are high. Saturn Keys are high. Amado keys are cheap. Trumpet cases are high, fancy buttons and valve tops are high. Having more that one trumpet is expensive. Monettes and Blackburns are high.

Those most critical aren't interested in the product, that's ok. It is for folks who need it and want it. Don't be critical of a Rolex and the Swiss who make it, just because a Timex will keep time.

I just took two more orders for several dozen more, of course there is a volume discount.

Others may cheapen my product with mere words, I add value to my product by good design and good quality.

This product will stand on its own with or without critics, because some of the people in the industry that I respect greatly are already on board. If it were an Amado I would sell it for 5 bucks, but it is a Rolls Royce, and it can't be bought for 5 bucks! I may be able to charge less when production costs are analyzed, but the Pollard Water Key is worth MORE that what it costs right now to the folks who want it. If you don't want is, it's not worth a penny.

Thanks for all remarks, critical and not critical!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice design!

Pollard drain valves seem to be designed better than Amados as far as prevention of stickiness is concerned. With good hygiene, Pollards should have an advantage due to mating surfaces. With poor hygiene, due to conical design, Pollards may leak more than Amados (as long as anything is trapped between the two conical surfaces). Maintenance should be easier compared to old-style Amados as there is no retainer ring. Newer Amado designs also do not have a retainer ring and use a screw plate or screw insert instead.

Myself, I prefer no waterkeys at all and draining through the bell.
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