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"new" water key design?


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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately this is not one of those things one can easily try. Having to remove the old device and install the new one pretty much prevents that.

In reading the website it does look like it addresses the issue with amados where one has to blow carefully to empty properly.
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lgt0412
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

Brassworks wrote:
the Pollard Water Key is worth MORE that what it costs right now to the folks who want it. If you don't want is, it's not worth a penny.


I think that is the key. You are completely right in that statement. This is how I look at it. If payed $10,000 for a great car and all I had to do was wash it now and then ........ and you came along and told me you had a great new car that would serve me just as well AND I'd NEVER have to wash it ...... BUT, It was gonna cost me $40,000, I would say no thanks, I'll save my $30,000 and keep washing my car. But I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who will want your product either because they have had problems with other waterkeys or possibly just simply because you have a great product they don't mind paying for. But at your price I think its clear a certain part of your target customer base will not be willing to pay that price.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Unfortunately this is not one of those things one can easily try. Having to remove the old device and install the new one pretty much prevents that.

In reading the website it does look like it addresses the issue with amados where one has to blow carefully to empty properly.


The "need to carefully blow" issue is due to an internal burr near the waterkey hole, and is just as likely to occur with any waterkey model (whether it is lever, Amado, or Pollard).
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't personally had the carefully blow issue with my getzen's amado, but it was also in part due to not having the same depression/nipple that a standard key had.
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tptguy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We were sent some samples and were quite impressed. Yes, a better mousetrap. Sure, they'll cost us quite a bit more than our current Amado water keys. But we believe a great trumpet deserves the best so we'll be trying these on some SIMA trumpets now in production. We'll update this page as we learn more. Regards, Kyle
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laurent
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
I haven't personally had the carefully blow issue with my getzen's amado, but it was also in part due to not having the same depression/nipple that a standard key had.

I've never had any kind of issue with Amado keys, their only drawback for me is the circlip that the simplest ones feature.
But those that use a screwed back instead of a circlip are just fine in my opinion: they are very easy to disassemble when needed, they work perfectly and as far as I know, they never leak - unlike the lever keys when the cork is worn out.
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Retlaw
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptguy wrote:
We were sent some samples and were quite impressed. Yes, a better mousetrap. Sure, they'll cost us quite a bitmore than our current Amado water keys. But we believe a great trumpet deserves the best so we'll be trying these on some SIMA trumpets now in production. We'll update this page as we learn more. Regards, Kyle


Says it all for me.... the guys who actually buy these things seem to be looking forward to a new and possibly better product.

If you record seriously quiet passages on a really good mic the tiniest bit of water bubbling away will ruin it. Anything that helps a total clear is worthwhile....these look like they could do it.

Walter
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Brassworks
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

The last multi thousand dollar horn I bought is one of my favorites, (4700.00)and I play it more than any other, but for the last 7 years, the Amado key has stuck occasionally, and has not dumped well, even with frequent cleaning. I came up with several ideas for a better water key, and at least two other ideas would be effective, but this conical shaped idea struck me, so I spent a lot of time, energy, and money to develop it and to protect my idea.

You wouldn't put 30 dollar tires on a Porsche, and I want my spit valve to work as well as my horn plays.

Thanks for all the thoughts from everyone, I have other products that will be coming along as time and money permit.

Jerry
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GizB
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acritzer wrote:
Ahhh. I kind of like the way my Saturn keys look!


Me, too! I've got Saturns on my 2 Bbs & C, and will probably put 'em on my Benge 5 flugel this year.

I think I paid $35 or $40 each for my Saturns years ago, so $40 in 2013 for a quality product seems pretty reasonable. And at $40, they're cheaper than mouthpieces & valve buttons, heavy weights, or almost anything else you can buy to pimp your trumpet.

Does anybody know who is selling the Saturns these days?

And does anybody remember this:

http://www.otto-horn.de/epages/298852.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/298852/Products/70001
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Retlaw
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn's are about $50 ? Probably work very well but look a bit big and out of proportion. With all that metal I wonder if they change the way the horn sounds.... Which horns do they come on as a stock fitting?

Walter
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Retlaw
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

Brassworks wrote:

You wouldn't put 30 dollar tires on a Porsche, and I want my spit valve to work as well as my horn plays.
Jerry


If you can afford a Porsche probably not. Many would spend money on their beater with cheap "go faster" decals rather than spend a bit more and make a serious improvement.

Walter
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GizB wrote:
acritzer wrote:
Ahhh. I kind of like the way my Saturn keys look!


Me, too! I've got Saturns on my 2 Bbs & C, and will probably put 'em on my Benge 5 flugel this year.

I think I paid $35 or $40 each for my Saturns years ago, so $40 in 2013 for a quality product seems pretty reasonable. And at $40, they're cheaper than mouthpieces & valve buttons, heavy weights, or almost anything else you can buy to pimp your trumpet.

Does anybody know who is selling the Saturns these days?

And does anybody remember this:

http://www.otto-horn.de/epages/298852.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/298852/Products/70001


Yes, the continuously draining valve. With all of these valves there is the same problem - spit accumulates in the first and second valve crooks, and these do not get cleared - neither by opening the tuning slide nor the third slide drain valve.

Because of that, I prefer no waterkey at all and drain through the bell, if at all possible.
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Wes Clarke
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to believe that anyone who objects to the price is muttering to himself, "Now, why didn't I think of that." Good grief, more than a few of us (not me, but probably some of you) will spend $40 on coffee this week.

This is a simple design. Actually, quite a bit simpler and more elegant than an Amado. Simplicity in design is often the thing that makes it better. See Rube Goldberg if you don't think that's true. I have only one horn with Amados, but I imagine I'll be changing them soon to a couple of these. Great idea.
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Brassworks
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:59 am    Post subject: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

The post about good hygiene perhaps makes a good point; if trash gets in the horn, it could cause the valve to leak. I think the chances are slim to none. It would be the same as something getting stuck in the seal of a cork or rubber seal against the seat, and that just doesn't happen.

Maintenance is important in any mechanical device, but the Pollard Water Key is not going to stick, and it will not leak, unless something hard gets in the way of the valve, and I can't imagine that.

I've had one on one of my horns for going on four months, and even with purposely playing without caring about cleanliness, the valve has been 100% perfect in operation.

Thanks for all the interest!


Jerry Pollard
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Flattergrub
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would be helpful if you posted pictures of the unassembled parts from different angles and a cutaway view illustration.
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Brassworks
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

I will be doing cutaway drawings and posting, thanks for the comment. This is a very new project, so getting the product right has been the goal, so marketing and other things will come now. I am also making a large scale cutaway to show the geometry, and when it is finished I'll post pics on my website.

Thanks for the interest!

Jerry Pollard
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Retlaw
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jerry ...have you got this thing patented yet....

Walter
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veery715
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Retlaw wrote:
Hey Jerry ...have you got this thing patented yet....

Walter
If not, then can we still see the drawings!!???
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Brassworks
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: www.pollardwaterkey.com Reply with quote

I have Patent Pending status.

I put a drawing on my facebook page, it is under Pollard Waterkey.

I will post a drawing here with parts soon.

Thanks. !

Jerry Pollard
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Retlaw
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know of someone who thought of the design before you, he just doesn't know it yet.....hasn't posted yet either.....

Seriously though .....I hope it goes well for you.


Walter
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