Conn 12A

[Taallyn]

After having my Bb trumpet in the shop for a few weeks over the Christmas holidays, I decided to look for a backup instrument so that I wouldn't be caught without a way to practice again. Thinking about this over those weeks, I decided that a cornet would be a better choice than another student or intermediate trumpet. I figured that a cornet would at least allow me to go for a different sound than another trumpet and would probably get played more than a second trumpet would. I don't really want to get into the whole horn collecting hobby as I would go broke very quickly. Plus, my trumpet still seems to be about the right level of horn for me at this stage of my comeback.

A fellow trumpet player in our community band let me try a few of his cornets the past several weeks at practice. Tonight I bought his vintage Conn 12A cornet with a coprion bell and the original case and mutes. It is a nice sounding horn who's original owner was supposedly a pro in Missouri way back when the horn was new (the original owner's name tag is still in the case). It looks like he took care of it because the finish is still pretty good, some spots but overall in really good shape considering the age and my limited experience with them. It seems to have a nice aged patina to it. Shiny, but not blindingly bright. According to the Conn Loyalist website, the horn's serial number dates to around 1939-40.

I think what attracted me to it is that it is just so different from my silver plated Yamaha. It looks different and more importantly has a noticeably different timbre/quality to it's sound. The mouthpiece that I got for it is a Giardinelli 7VS with a 7 screw-rim on it. Again, different than what I use on my trumpet which is either a Bach 7C or 3C.

Plus, the price was quite reasonable for it too. My bandmate doesn't really play his cornets and seemed to be happy to give this one new home.

I couldn't be happier with it. I got a nice backup horn that expands the sound styles I can play now. It doesn't exactly duplicate my trumpet, but can fill in if needed or be used on it's own when the mood or need strikes. I think I should be set for time being as far as horns go now. No excuses not to practice.

That said, this is my first really vintage era horn. This cornet's valves are very different than my trumpet's. Bottom sprung, cork spacers, different guide mechanism. Plus it is lacquered instead of silver plated. The cornet is etched versus the un-etched trumpet. What sorts of care and maintenance might be different that I should be aware of? Should I use an oil more suited to vintage horns instead of a more modern one? I understand that a "C" cup mouthpiece may help make it sound more "trumpet-like" if needed. Is that true with this model cornet? Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks.
_________________
Craig A. Lee
Comeback started Dec. 2012
"It feels **** good to have the horn back in my hands!"

[nieuwguyski]

[Taallyn]

Thanks. That was what I was looking for.

The mouthpiece is an older one and seems to fit the receiver really well. It is tight and there isn't any air loss. So, I never considered that the shank might be correct for the horn. I had been considering ordering a Curry 3BBC mouthpiece anyway. I guess a regular C cup wouldn't hurt either.
_________________
Craig A. Lee
Comeback started Dec. 2012
"It feels **** good to have the horn back in my hands!"

[gjarrell]

FWIW - I have one of these, 1952 vintage, and I use a Wick RW3B that someone had threaded for a Bach screw rim and I use a Laskey 80 rim on it. Other standard cornet shanks fit as well including one that's a Curry short shank 1TC. Frankly, I can't tell that the Curry short shank makes any significant difference that's a positive vs the Wick. The Wick is a shorter mouthpiece but it's a standard cornet taper - it doesn't wobble in the receiver either. I called Scott Laskey a week ago to have him make a short shank and he told me to have the receiver measured by a tech and from that data the taper could be calculated. I mentioned that I used the Wick and he said his mouthpieces are the same taper as a Wick but longer overall like other makes. I've read, more than once, the Conn Loyalist page on cornet shanks, the 1958 changeover, etc. and I'm not convinced despite the fact that the Conn short and long shanks exist and Curry makes short shank mouthpieces. As Scott said, if there were an inability to play up to pitch with a "modern" cornet mouthpiece, that would be a problem. But I'm not seeing or feeling that. I think one of the comments on the Conn Loyalist page talks about playability being better with the short shank - I can't tell, maybe my receiver was "reamed out" by use of a "normal" cornet mouthpiece. I'm pulling the tuning slide a solid inch with the Wick, so I figure with another standard cornet mouthpiece I'd simply pull the tuning slide less. I've also use a Curry 1VC that's a short shank and I still like the Wick better. I suppose the debate will go on and on and on. I'll say this, I'm definitely not going to use a vintage Conn mouthpiece, but that's just me.
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Glenn
"When you play, make a statement. Don't ask a question." - Prof. Fielder

[nieuwguyski]

I've had two Conn cornets from the '20s for years, and always plugged modern mouthpieces in them with no problem. When I first read about the mysterious pre-'58 Conn short-shank mouthpiece I was, to put it mildly, skeptical -- and I frequently expressed my skepticism on the trumpet boards.

Then I finally measured the mouthpiece gap on my old Conns. With every modern mouthpiece, whether long-shank or a Wick, the gap was *negative*. Yep, the end of the shank was past the ledge at the beginning of the leadpipe and a bit into the leadpipe itself. I don't know if damage has been done down there -- if the beginning of the leadpipe has been expanded, from having too-long shanks jammed into it.

The two vintage Conn cornet mouthpieces I have, from very different eras, both stop before the ledge, giving a gap of about 0.10". I can't claim that the cornets play vastly better with the Conn mouthpieces, but they're both smaller than my normal mouthpieces, with rims I find uncomfortable, so I'm not too surprised that I don't get great results.

Ultimately it may not matter. I always thought my cornets played fine with modern cornet mouthpieces. But now that I know that there is a difference, I find myself wanting to use the shank that fits as the designers intended.
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[jazz_trpt]

[Taallyn]

Wow. Thanks again for all of the information about the mouthpieces, shanks, and receivers. It has explained a few other concepts I had read about on the boards, but didn't fully grasp. Definitely gives me some things to consider.
_________________
Craig A. Lee
Comeback started Dec. 2012
"It feels **** good to have the horn back in my hands!"